Phalsbourgh heli airshow 12-13 Sept 2009

[Wrecks]

Who knows which rotorless Gazelle was parked in the closed white static hangar 6 ?

Regards,

Otger

[B727]

Was there on sunday! The following serials are confirmed by photoproof from the tableu ALAT demo!

1232 DBA SA.330B
1165 DCT/16 SA.330B desert camo.
.... DDA/11 SA.330B
.... DAC/48 SA.330B

1369 GQL SA.341F
3868 GAO SA.341F
1149 GQH SA.341F
4228 GEW SA.341F
3862 GAL SA.341F
.... GQW SA.341F

[sonny]

Thanks for all who posted a log. I now have the following serials:
Otherside
____/DDA/11 SA330Ba 1 RHC
1232/DBA SA330Ba 1 RHC
1036/DAC/48 SA330Ba 1 RHC
1165/DCT/16 SA330Ba 1 RHC desert c/s
____/DCU SA330Ba 1 RHC
1149/GQH SA341F 1 RHC
1369/GQL SA341F 1 RHC
(1508)/GQW SA341F 1 RHC
1518/GQX SA341F 1 RHC
3868/GAO SA342M 1 RHC
3862/GAL SA342M 1 RHC
4119/GBQ SA342M 1 RHC
4144/GBX SA342M 1 RHC
(4145)/GBY SA342M 1 RHC
4186/GCM SA342M 1 RHC
4218/GEM SA342L1 1 RHC
4228/GEW SA342L1 1 RHC

Above 12 Gazelle serials/codes were taken from the plan board (inside the EHM building) and appeared to be right after double check with different logs posted on the net. Only non-confirmed information between brackets.

Actually ID by our group on Sunday were:-
SA.341/2: GCM, GEM, GAL, GBY, G_L, GBQ, 1149/GQH, __X +4
SA.330Ba: DDA, DBA, DAC, DCT, DCU

Additions/confirmat ions more than welcome!

[sonny]

Besides, the following was seen inside the (closed) EHM hangar (near the car park):
Hangar EHM1 A: ____ SA330Ba (no serial/code, freshly painted)
Hangar EHM1 B: ____/BCBKT SA342M (Viviane?)
Hangar EHM1 C: ____/DCM SA330Ba 1 RHC
Hangar EHM1 D: ____/DBH SA330Ba 1 RHC
Hangar EHM1 E: (1617)/DBM SA.330Ba 1 RHC
Hangar EHM1 F: ____/DAZ SA330Ba 1 RHC
Hangar EHM1 G: 4072/GBI SA342M 1 RHC
Hangar EHM1 H: Empty
The Gazelle in Hangar EHM1 B carried code 'BCBKT' (left side). I wasn't able to check the righthand side. The serial of Puma 'DBM' was taken from a plan board.

Hangar EHM3 A: Empty
Hangar EHM3 B: Empty
Hangar EHM3 C: Empty
Hangar EHM3 D: Empty
Hangar EHM3 E: ___/DDD SA330Ba 1 RHC
Hangar EHM3 F: ___/DAV SA330Ba 1 RHC
Hangar EHM3 G: Empty
Hangar EHM3 H: Empty
Puma 'DDD' was also noted by one of our team members as being in hangar EHM3 C instead of EHM3 E.

Again additions/confirmat ions more than welcome!

[liddellesf]

Two small adds for the lists.
c/ns for the Douanes F-ZBGJ and the Securite Civil F-ZBPS confirmed as 0551 and 9042 respectively from the log books - carried in the front starboard door pocket..

Thanks to the guys for the maintenance squadron listing.

Concerning the CODES - I've just been sorting my log out and noted there seem to be alpha/numeric code sequences with the Gazelles – the GQs are the SA.341Fs, the GAs, GBs, and GCs are the SA.342Ms, and the GEs are the SA.342Ls, and the coding is running in the same sense as the serial order.

If this has been reported before, sorry, I missed it.

Is the ALAT implementing a system similar to the AdlA with codes permanently assigned to airframes? (the G being Phalsbourg - is that again an alphabetical system??!)

Neil

[frank kramer]

Concerning the CODES - I've just been sorting my log out and noted there seem to be alpha/numeric code sequences with the Gazelles – the GQs are the SA.341Fs, the GAs, GBs, and GCs are the SA.342Ms, and the GEs are the SA.342Ls, and the coding is running in the same sense as the serial order.

Is the ALAT implementing a system similar to the AdlA with codes permanently assigned to airframes? (the G being Phalsbourg - is that again an alphabetical system??!)

you're right about the first part (but then again, that was also the case when they carried codes starting with C), but I think there is no ground (yet!) for your second observation, as the Phalsbourg-based Pumas got recoded to D-series instead of G-series...

[AK01]

Concerning the CODES - I've just been sorting my log out and noted there seem to be alpha/numeric code sequences with the Gazelles – the GQs are the SA.341Fs, the GAs, GBs, and GCs are the SA.342Ms, and the GEs are the SA.342Ls, and the coding is running in the same sense as the serial order.

Is the ALAT implementing a system similar to the AdlA with codes permanently assigned to airframes? (the G being Phalsbourg - is that again an alphabetical system??!)

you're right about the first part (but then again, that was also the case when they carried codes starting with C), but I think there is no ground (yet!) for your second observation, as the Phalsbourg-based Pumas got recoded to D-series instead of G-series...

Frank,
I don't know it for sure as well, however at Phalsbourg they have Sa330B's with codes starting with DA*/DB*/DC*/DD* .
If they recoded from DAA to DZZ it would mean 1 RHC has at least 4 x 26, so more then 100 Sa330's in it's inventory, this would be rather strange. Let's wait and see if Puma's coded in DA/DD also show up on other ALAT fields, if they start using the same code range at (for instance) Pau or Etain it might prove they recoded them all, and therefore the code's will be fixed instead of assigned to índividual squadrons.
Perhaps this discussion should be continued elsewhere as it's not realy covering Phalsbourg Airshow anymore.

Pieter

[Wijgert IJlst]

Concerning the CODES - I've just been sorting my log out and noted there seem to be alpha/numeric code sequences with the Gazelles – the GQs are the SA.341Fs, the GAs, GBs, and GCs are the SA.342Ms, and the GEs are the SA.342Ls, and the coding is running in the same sense as the serial order.

Is the ALAT implementing a system similar to the AdlA with codes permanently assigned to airframes? (the G being Phalsbourg - is that again an alphabetical system??!)

you're right about the first part (but then again, that was also the case when they carried codes starting with C), but I think there is no ground (yet!) for your second observation, as the Phalsbourg-based Pumas got recoded to D-series instead of G-series...

Frank,
I don't know it for sure as well, however at Phalsbourg they have Sa330B's with codes starting with DA*/DB*/DC*/DD* .
If they recoded from DAA to DZZ it would mean 1 RHC has at least 4 x 26, so more then 100 Sa330's in it's inventory, this would be rather strange. Let's wait and see if Puma's coded in DA/DD also show up on other ALAT fields, if they start using the same code range at (for instance) Pau or Etain it might prove they recoded them all, and therefore the code's will be fixed instead of assigned to índividual squadrons.
Perhaps this discussion should be continued elsewhere as it's not realy covering Phalsbourg Airshow anymore.

My best guess is that Gxx stands for Gazelle, Dxx stands for Puma and Cxx stands for Cougar/Super Puma. I have noted the following new codes at Pau (GQJ for a Gazelle, DDQ for a Puma and CIA for a Cougar/Super Puma) and Le Luc (GNU Gazelle, and Puma's DOW and DON, aswell as Puma's with old codes MBA, BCT, BRA, ACT and ABD) recently.
Also strange are the two Fennecs I noted in a hangar at Valence, these had a single letter (last of there code? Letters where U and E) applied on top on the bonnet of the engine, right above the canopy. Hadn't noticed it before on this spot, also can't remember a Fennec coded AYU or BSU, or BSE... AYE could be an option. But perhaps they use a new code system aswell?

I agree perhaps a good optopn to continue this discussion in a seperate topic? Moderator(s), can you add/merge this subject into a new topic please?

[frank kramer]

I agree perhaps a good optopn to continue this discussion in a seperate topic? Moderator(s), can you add/merge this subject into a new topic please?

I agree. Mods, do your thing !

Having said that, I also feel that you may have hit the nail on the head. Central coding per type as with the RAF Tonkas and Harriers seems the only logic explanation so far. It would also account for the "fleet numbers" observed on the Pumas. Makes sense too, given the fact that the number of active aircraft is also dwindling in the ALAT.
However, that will not make our life easier... it means that we can no longer attribute a specific helo to a specific unit or RHC in the way we could when the first letter indicated the RHC

[Wijgert IJlst]

Frank, it's still possible that the second character indicates the homebase or unit...
Edit: concerning the extra added numbers which are applied to some of the new codes, can you tell me where to find it on the out side. I did not take notice of it, perhaps I missed them.

[Arjan]

I asked about the Gazelle in hangar 2. They checked on the nose for me. if I understood the French reply correctly (certainement!) it was ship 4224.

That seems to be correct. There is a small dragon painted on the hull next to the code. See pic. Can anyone confirm this is indeed a squuadronmarking?

[frank kramer]

Yes, that is the badge of ETM01.040! See:

http://www.airmil.org/ins_1301.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and scroll down to A1337

(homologation A1337 de 07.07.2004 or: the date this badge was officially accepted by the French AF)
ETM01.040 apparently has two subordinate flights: "Verdun" and "Valmy"

Incidentally, this proves my point about the Fennec NOT belonging to EH03.067: Both crew AND Fennec sported the badge of ETM01.040...


And as for the codes, they were painted on the unglazed part of the cockpit door of the Pumas. Tie ups from my pics:
DAC/48
DAG/34
DAO/41
DBL/31
DCT/16
DDA/11

[liddellesf]

The ETM 01.040 "Moselle" is the METZ-FRASCATY based unit with TBM.700 and AS.555. For instance, see the Metz show reports from 13 May 2007 when both types were displayed with unit badges and information boards.

"Valmy" was the title of EH 02.067 and "Verdun" of ETM 00.041, both based at Metz - these were amalgamated into ETM 01.041, presumably keeping the old squadron traditions in the new flights - Valmy will be the rotary flight and Verdun the fixed-wing.

Pardon, but it's a habit of assuming the AS.555s are from EH.03.067 - the majority seen in northern France, and north of there, are from ETM 01.041.

Neil

[frank kramer]

The ETM 01.040 "Moselle" is the METZ-FRASCATY based unit with TBM.700 and AS.555. For instance, see the Metz show reports from 13 May 2007 when both types were displayed with unit badges and information boards.

"Valmy" was the title of EH 02.067 and "Verdun" of ETM 00.041, both based at Metz - these were amalgamated into ETM 01.041, presumably keeping the old squadron traditions in the new flights - Valmy will be the rotary flight and Verdun the fixed-wing.

Pardon, but it's a habit of assuming the AS.555s are from EH.03.067 - the majority seen in northern France, and north of there, are from ETM 01.041.

Neil

For clarification purposes only: make that ETM01.040