Germany suspends Tiger heli purchase due technical problems

[Stratofreighter]

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(Reuters) - Germany is suspending its 3 billion euro (2.6 billion pounds) purchase of EADS's (EAD.PA) Tiger attack helicopter due to technical problems, potentially delaying delivery to its forces in Afghanistan until end-2011.

BUSINESS

An internal ministry report obtained by Reuters on Tuesday said the step was being taken because of serious problems with the wiring of the helicopter built by EADS unit Eurocopter.
"Until the faults have been effectively and systematically rectified, the defence ministry plans to suspend the purchase of the ... helicopters," the report said.

The problems, which also cropped up with Tigers which had only had a few hours flying time, meant delivery of the first deployable helicopters would be delayed by at least seven months until November 2011, according to the report.
Germany's order for the 80 Tiger helicopters was worth around 3 billion euros, according to previous estimates.

None of the 11 Tiger helicopters delivered so far has been suitable for operational use or training, the report added.
The Franco-German attack helicopter first flew in 2003 but its entry into service has been delayed by technical problems.
France and Germany ordered 80 Tigers each but they are being built in different versions to suit their operational needs.

France first deployed its version of the Tiger to Afghanistan last year. Germany is still waiting for the first fully combat-capable version of the type it has ordered.
Eurocopter said it was working on the wiring problems and would meantime continue to deliver helicopters for testing.
The freeze on deliveries ordered in the leaked report refers to the final version to be delivered to support combat troops.

INTENSIVE TESTS

"Corrective measures related to wiring problems have been developed, agreed by the customer and are being implemented," a Eurocopter spokeswoman said in an e-mailed statement.

"The first two helicopters will be handed over to the German official services in June and July for intensive tests. In alignment with the customer, additional helicopter deliveries to the German Army are foreseen from the fourth quarter of 2010."

The helicopter is needed to provide air support for German forces deployed in northern Afghanistan, where they face mounting losses due to an increase in the number of direct engagements with Taliban fighters, military sources say.

Germany's area of operations includes difficult terrain with low visibility, where combat helicopters can deliver a clearer picture of the situation to the troops.
Currently German forces rely solely on American air support.

The fresh delay, coming two weeks ahead of the Berlin air show, is the latest in a series of setbacks for EADS.

It comes on top of delays to the A400M military transporter and the NH-90 multi-role helicopter, both of which have strained industrial relations between EADS and German defence chiefs.

Besides France and Germany, the battlefield Tiger helicopter has been ordered by Spain and Australia.

[pjotrtje]

And to think 'we' (Dutchmen) were able to choose between the Mangusta, the Tiger and the Apache... I think we sort of made a sensible choice, buying off the shelf.

[Hans Rolink]

And to think 'we' (Dutchmen) were able to choose between the Mangusta, the Tiger and the Apache... I think we sort of made a sensible choice, buying off the shelf.

True, but the French don't seem to have any problems. So it is either the technology of the German version or the German's inability to work with modern systems.
Eurofighter and the former Dutch Orions are other examples of systems that work well in other countries but have their problems in Germany.

Hans.

[SquAdmin]

True, but the French don't seem to have any problems. So it is either the technology of the German version or the German's inability to work with modern systems.

The Germans are using a different version than the French.

[Hans Rolink]

True, but the French don't seem to have any problems. So it is either the technology of the German version or the German's inability to work with modern systems.

The Germans are using a different version than the French.

I know.
What I meant with "not being able to work with modern systems" is also applicable to system design, testing and implementation. It seems the Germans should improve something in their line of working. Remember Eurofighter and Orion. There is a pattern here.
I am really anxious to see their experience with the EuroHawk UAV...

Hans.

[ehusmann]

There is a pattern here.

I also remember the A380 problems... Root cause seemed to be the different CAT software versions the German and French design teams used. Now I do not know which team decided to use the ´wrong´ version.... but it certainly fits in the patern.

Erwin

[Machiavelli]

Hi,

the french experienced nearly the same, but work with a different approach towards "availability for operational use",
(don´t want to imply a different FltSafety attitude!)

also the avionics of the HAP are more bottom of the line, so some problems are really nationalised, bad luck vor zee germans

Eurocopter will deliver the first two "real" serial h/c (step 3) to the germans within the next two month and after ~ 50Flthrs they will strip 1 german and 1 french Tiger totally to have a look at all the wiring and check whether the corrections implemented worked or not.

AFAIK the problem is the flame-retarding cable coating and that chafe-marks were found on low flying hrs a/c and at different locations,
the mechanics assume a connection with the warnings/subsystem malfunctions coming up erratically,
so at least to me it sounds like a good reason to have a closer look.

Regards,
Mike.

[frank kramer]

I happened to see a news item on the subject on German tv three days ago. It appears that the main problem is that some of the cables in the airframe were chafing (in Dutch: schuurden) badly. They showed images of cables and (hydraulic?) lines that were so badly worn down that they looked as if they had been in use for decades... but they came from helos that had testflown only for a few hours This was the case on most if not all of the helos produced. Seems a lot of airframes are stored rotorless awaiting the outcome of investigations (how is this possible), modification suggestions (how do we fix it), the modifications themselves and more testing... and probably: who pays?

[Stefan]

FYI: the first flight of a Tiger/Tiger was in April 1991... that is 19 years ago...

[Le Addeur noir]

Meanwhile the British selected the Apache in July 1994 and all 67 helicopters have been in service since 2007.

Maybe the German Tigers will become operational sometime before 2030.

[SquAdmin]

Meanwhile the British selected the Apache in July 1994 and all 67 helicopters have been in service since 2007.

Due to a lack of pilots. That's something else than a serious technical problem of course.

[Machiavelli]

Due to a lack of pilots. That's something else than a serious technical problem of course.

You may correct me, but the engine integration as well as some of the avionic changes didn´t run as smooth as expected, also the
Chinook HC3 isn´t what I would call a success in military procurement.

regards,
Mike

[Le Addeur noir]

Meanwhile the British selected the Apache in July 1994 and all 67 helicopters have been in service since 2007.

Due to a lack of pilots. That's something else than a serious technical problem of course.

The lack of pilots was due to the army anticipating a delay in the programme which did not occur.Full service entry could have been achieved in 2003.The Apache programme can be considered one of(or indeed the only) the sucessful British procurement programmes of the last 15 years.

By the time the last German Tiger is delivered at some point in the next decade,the Brit Apaches will be coming up for replacement,assuming there is still a British military in the next decade.

[Machiavelli]

By the time the last German Tiger is delivered at some point in the next decade,the Brit Apaches will be coming up for replacement,assuming there is still a British military in the next decade.

That could come true - considering the hrs logged employed and on the german side a 2900 millions cut in defence spending over the next 3 yrs.

Planned are the deliveries of the 9810 an 9816 as first Step 3 h/c till end of June, and then below 10 h/c per annum, of course depending on the redesign progress and the above mentioned missing millions.

Regards,
Mike.