About this forum

[Thijs]

Interesting discussion, but as a side not, this discussion is only about the current Schiphol (civil) movements, which is only a small part of the hobby / photo forum. There are still a lot of other interesting photo topics in my opinion.

By the way why do you guys post pictures? To get as many oh's and ah's? Or to show your pictures to the world so everybody can enjoy them?

[ErwinS]

Interesting discussion, but as a side not, this discussion is only about the current Schiphol (civil) movements, which is only a small part of the hobby / photo forum. There are still a lot of other interesting photo topics in my opinion.

By the way why do you guys post pictures? To get as many oh's and ah's? Or to show your pictures to the world so everybody can enjoy them?

I posted pictures of rare visitors because that is what spotting is about imo. To show the rare a/c that I have seen and others want to see.
Nowadays you only see most of the times just KLM stuff and other regulars wich is just not what I want to see. But like I said, that's my own opinion. I am not obliged to take a look.

The photo forum is just loosing a bit of the spotter conection, it's getting more a show of who makes the best shot.
And that is a shame I think.

[Key]

The photo forum is just loosing a bit of the spotter conection, it's getting more a show of who makes the best shot.
And that is a shame I think.

I agree. But like others have said before: the way to stop that is to post photos of the more rare aircraft. Complaining their number is low won't help. Just show them and don't be mislead by the low number of comments.
As we all know, the majority of comments will always be about the photographic aspects (here and anywhere) and those aspects are usually best displayed with common aircraft: most chances of beautiful light, low risk to spoil a unique moment etc.

Personally, I enjoy both kinds of aviation photography, and the combination may be best of all. Go for it!


Erik

[Mzunguwamap]

Maybe it is time for a "rare visitors" photo forum instead of the "Aviation Photos - Screened" forum that did'nt work out.
And then preferably without the ah's and oh's and your so good comments, pictures only then (hence the name photo forum)

[dvdzee]

The photo forum is just loosing a bit of the spotter conection, it's getting more a show of who makes the best shot.
And that is a shame I think.

I agree. But like others have said before: the way to stop that is to post photos of the more rare aircraft. Complaining their number is low won't help. Just show them and don't be mislead by the low number of comments.
As we all know, the majority of comments will always be about the photographic aspects (here and anywhere) and those aspects are usually best displayed with common aircraft: most chances of beautiful light, low risk to spoil a unique moment etc.

Personally, I enjoy both kinds of aviation photography, and the combination may be best of all. Go for it!


Erik

@Erik,

How do you define a rare aircraft / what ia a rare aircraft ?

@ErwinS ? the ever on going discussion : what is a "spotter" / what is a spotters connection ?


Anybody please correct me on this one, but as for as I am concerned, the original spotter was somebody who was writing EVERY number / registration of aircraft that he / she saw. In our modern days you still have that type of spotter, the aviation photographer and a combination of those 2 types. Im my humble opinion it is on where your emphasis is ( is that correct English .

Maybe the owners of this site must decide or put a strict rule what kind of picture to post or what NOT to post. I 133% agree that maybe the photo forum must be split up in 2 sections : a regular section and a non regular visitor section. for example ( just an example !! ) if an aircraft visited EHAM/AMS less than 10 times, we consider it a rare visitor otherwise consider it regular.

Personally I just want to share what I saw on a specific day, during a specific time period; but that is me.

Trully I am "dubbing" to quit the forum because these kind of things. Scramble helped me in record time to make good and sometimes superb pictures. some of mine pictures related to KLM and Surinam Airways were used by local news papers in Surinam and that is thanks to Scramble.

I sincerely do hope that we find a solution for this thing and that everybody is able ro respect the "other type of spotter".

Kind regards,

Douwe

[Andras]

Hi all,

A few examples about all the "whining" which contributes to the atmosphere change...

http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.php?p=509916#p509916

Only thing Scramble needs is fun people and no "whiners".. But that will happen when Santa lights up a 4th of July celebration tree..

Personally, I'm enjoying all the photo stuff, and I could not care a horses ass about regular/rare/spotterpic/civil/ or whatever pic. I just got more selective in commenting cause there is a lot of stuff and I have less time.

Perhaps splitting the photoforum; military and civil.. Cause a lot of people want that... And maybe that will regulate things..

Greets,

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[ErwinS]

Since I was the cause of discussion, one more reply from me.

Andras, you think I am a whiner? In that specific topic I asked about the location because I care about our hobby. If that spot isn't legal to visit that worries me. What do think will happen if more of us will do that kind of stuff? More restrictions for us!
I am almost every day at SPL and the things I sometimes see? Blocked crashgates, walking in farmersland, climbing alomost over fenches..... Just bad behaviour.
Why can't I say something about that? Pls tell me.
And that reply.... just smilies... how old are we....

I won't post any pics here anymore. It is hard for me to see ( personal opinion) that almost nobody cares anymore about the rare a/c in the photo forum.
The photo's that are posted are great but to me they don't belong here.
If I, or sombody else posts a An-12 for example there is almost no reply to that. But if there is yet another sunset shot of a KLM T7 everybody is almost in heaven? A bit weird.... Do you know how priveliged we are that we can still enjoy these old Soviet a/c?
The paper version of Scramble is also printed with rare a/c from all over the world and that is what Scramble is all about I think.
Together with my family I read Scramble from the early ninties. How many of the photographers wich are posting are ever had a paper version of Scramble in their hands or have a subscription?

Maybe it's an idea to start a aviation photo forum for the photographers alone. it seems that they have taken over the scramble forum.

And the replies when one of us says the correct type or reg.....Good example about the KSM An-12 wich visited us last weekend. One of the arty farty photographers posted a picture with the wrong reg. Ger replied to say it's RA-11363 is 12988 and the result? Ger was flamed about that! I am sorry...But if you are a true aviation enthausiast you would know wich An-12 it was and how rare she is to see these days.

And what about the criticism about the processing of some shots. I really don't care if a shot is excellent or low quality if the subject is rare. But no, the forum is filled with experts to tell you about sharpening, horizon etc.... This is no a.net or JP you know.... So why that?

Well I can go on and on about this but it seems that I am in the minority.

Good luck with photographing, there are truly wonderfull shots sometimes but for me not worth the visit anymore.

Rgds,

[tomba2247]

And the replies when one of us says the correct type or reg.....Good example about the KSM An-12 wich visited us last weekend. One of the arty farty photographers posted a picture with the wrong reg. Ger replied to say it's RA-11363 is 12988 and the result? Ger was flamed about that! I am sorry...But if you are a true aviation enthausiast you would know wich An-12 it was and how rare she is to see these days.

Rgds,

Sorry but I think it was the way "Ger" ended his message.. If you reed that than you see there is no respect in that message..just frustration about another great photographer.
I know Douwe very well..and he was truly upsad about that line.. So lets show some respect just like in the real world.
PS.Douwe cares about the numbers!

[ErwinS]

And the replies when one of us says the correct type or reg.....Good example about the KSM An-12 wich visited us last weekend. One of the arty farty photographers posted a picture with the wrong reg. Ger replied to say it's RA-11363 is 12988 and the result? Ger was flamed about that! I am sorry...But if you are a true aviation enthausiast you would know wich An-12 it was and how rare she is to see these days.

Rgds,

Sorry but I think it was the way "Ger" ended his message.. If you reed that than you see there is no respect in that message..just frustration about another great photographer.
I know Douwe very well..and he was truly upsad about that line.. So lets show some respect just like in the real world.
PS.Douwe cares about the numbers!

If you knew Ger then you now that is the way he replies, not always very tactfull I agree. And if you are upset by a comment then you can always just say that in a mature way and not calling us 'whiners' and so fort.
Why can't we have idea's about the forum?

[Andras]

Andras, you think I am a whiner?

Absolutly not, in fact i agree with most of what you said. I'm simply saying that all the little stuff and the tone in which things are interpreted all over topics is reason for me to skip reading.

The paper version of Scramble is also printed with rare a/c from all over the world and that is what Scramble is all about I think.

That is absolutly true, and i had that for 2 years if i remember correctly, or i bought it at the Bruna, but right here is where the difference starts, a lot of people just wanna photograph and don't care for the numbers/rarity

Sorry but I think it was the way "Ger" ended his message.. If you reed that than you see there is no respect in that message..

I think you can interpret that ending two ways, (or even the whole message) and it was not intended to disrespect, at least that is not how i read it. I started reading it again after Douwes reaction and thought "Wow, that is a bit hard.. (Douwes reaction i mean) Sometimes people express themselfs in English thinking in Dutch grammar, and that can be misleading.. But i do not know Ger nor his comments and apparently Ger has done stuff that seems to be a BIG issue..

[ehusmann]

Guys, I am not a photographer, I couldn't give a rat's ass about pictures. The only reason I check out the photography section every now and then is because either 1) I got there by mistake 2) I want to know the serials of some planes.
However, I find this discussion very interesting, because it reminds me very, very much about the MIL versus CIV discussion that comes up every now and then between the number crunchers. The result of that discussion: none.
Really, it is not worth it. Because no matter how you do it, some people are not satisfied.
- make two forums and you will get a whole list of discussions about where the picture should have been. Or you get people complaining that they cannot post all pictures together.
- ban all standard pictures and the photography section is empty in no time.
- ban all discussions and people will start complaining that it seems like nobody is interested.

And ask yourself the question: all the arguments you use for or against any solution. Are those arguments really objective, or is it just your personal opinion? Most I read here start with "I think", "I want" or "I like"....

In the end, everybody has this hobby for ones self, not for all the other mad spotters out there. So if you like posting your pictures here, post them. If you don't like to, don't post.

Erwin

[dj_ad]

Nowadays you only see most of the times just KLM stuff and other regulars wich is just not what I want to see

Well that makes me wonder what the difference is with seeing regulars here and having to cope as a screener with SPL regulars on JP as Schiphol being one of the airports with most pictures. Must have a hard life overthere.
So maybe here you see an example of

Sometimes people express themselfs in English thinking in Dutch grammar, and that can be misleading

If I, or sombody else posts a An-12 for example there is almost no reply to that. But if there is yet another sunset shot of a KLM T7 everybody is almost in heaven?

Well maybe cause a side-on or a sky-shot of an AN-12 is technically more easier to make as a good sunrise/sunset shot?

And what about the criticism about the processing of some shots

Is it always criticism, it can also be interpreted as a help to improve shots.
And on the personal matter I really wait to see the pictures that have been at least taken some care of in the post-processing rather than having to look at pictures right out of the camera that look blurry, have noise, bad lighting,levels,horizon etc etc

If you knew Ger then you now that is the way he replies, not always very tactfull I agree

Sometimes people express themselfs in English thinking in Dutch grammar, and that can be misleading

The last is for sure...I only met Ger once briefly and I was standing at not the best point at 36C and then Ger told me just out of himself where I could stand better at that moment. So that's Ger too..nobody is perfect

ban all standard pictures and the photography section is empty in no time

Is that what we want, I and I hope many others for sure not.

[ErwinS]

Nowadays you only see most of the times just KLM stuff and other regulars wich is just not what I want to see

Well that makes me wonder what the difference is with seeing regulars here and having to cope as a screener with SPL regulars on JP as Schiphol being one of the airports with most pictures. Must have a hard life overthere.

I fail to see what me being a screener with JP has to do with this photo forum......
Looks to me something very different and this is what I meant with a sarcastic reply. Not much constructive to do with your last words......

[dj_ad]

fail to see what me being a screener with JP has to do with this photo forum......

It's you that said you don't want to see regulars, I fail to see the difference between seeing
regulars here or at JP, do you when you see them there also think oh no not a KLM again?...
This photo forum is not called RARE PHOTOFORUM....so everybody is entitled to post their pics,
regular or not

Looks to me something very different and this is what I meant with a sarcastic reply. Not much constructive to do with your last words......

Start something and expect criticism, sarcasm( which I really did not mean so) or anything else or don't start it.
If you critisize others expect the ball back.

[Roel van Gestel]

Fascinating discussion and one that goes on from the 1980's onwards (as I recal) and probably even before.
I think it will be always 'them vs. us'. 'Civil vs. military', 'artistic vs. clear', 'numbers vs. pictures'.
I just want to say... It is a hobby. A minor one if you look it up.
Sarcastic replies don't work. Taking pictures when it's not allowed doesn't work. Because next time I want to take a picture, they tell me they don't like 'my kind' because of serious misbehaviour of others before me. Egoïsts should collect coins or stamps, but should not be a part of a global hobby (how meaningless to 99.999% of the world population it will be) and f*ck up my possibilities.
If you have issues with each others, PM please. Or call, even better. Just be polite like we have been told by our parents.