Switzerland opts for 22 Gripens

[Coati]

I can't imagine the Swiss changing their choice for the Gripen. The Gripen is a good replacement for the Miliz-pilots which now use the F-5. The Rafale is a much more complex weapons-system, and would be more appropriate if the Hornet would be withdrawn from use.

The reason is because a letter (anonymous) was send to the parliament about the apparently completely flawed selection process. So I can imagine the Swiss chance if it appears to be a corrupted selection process. The same happened with the buy of more Mirages in the 70s. This order was dropped after the Dassault scandal (and they switched to the F-5).

The Miliz is not a reason to buy a less complex aircraft. The Hornet fleet is also flown by a full time fighter community, after evaluated unsuitable for miliz pilots. I thought the Swiss were abandoning their Miliz structure anyway slowly.
It would have been strange to select two airframes for evaluation (Eurofighter and Rafale) if the sole purpose was to find a less complex airframe for miliz only. Why bother to evaluate them otherwise?

[Hans Rolink]

They never even evaluated the Super Hornet. In fact, Boeing withdrew their bid for the F/A-18E/F upon realising it would be too expensive and too complicated anyway for the Swis requirement.

Hans.

[Coati]

Ehh, you are right. Corrected!

[Stratofreighter]

I surely can't be the first one on this forum to stumble upon this "bomb shell", right ?

http://files.newsnetz.ch/upload//1/2/12332.pdf

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/news ... -1.3523574

Newspaper: Swiss gov't ignored air force over jets

Published: February 12, 2012 7:58 AM

GENEVA - (AP) -- A Swiss newspaper has published what it says is a confidential report in which the Swiss Air Force recommended buying French or European fighter jets to replace its aging fleet -- not the Swedish fighters later chosen by politicians.

The report posted online Sunday by the Zurich weekly newspaper SonntagsZeitung says Air Force tests in 2008 showed that Rafale fighters, made by French company Dassault Aviation, or Eurofighters built by a European consortium, were the best overall performers.

The Swiss Cabinet acknowledged cost was a factor in its November decision to order 22 Gripen fighters from Sweden's Saab AB to replace the air force's Northrop F-5 Tigers.

[Hans Rolink]

Rafale and Eurofighter, the best overall performers for sure, no doubt.
However, would a meaningful number be affordable for the budget at hand, that is the question not discussed in this report. A not unimportant question to be asked, also for a certain small country on the shores of the North Sea.
What also strikes me is the fact that the Swiss seek a replacement for the F-5 while comparing the three jets to the F/A-18.

Idea for the Swiss; sell the F/A-18's, retire the F-5 and replace both with Rafale, say 50 or 60. That solves the problem of Rafale achieving everything with a completely French suite of sensors, systems and armament.

Hans.

[pipichantal]

Their is also this rumour.

When the swiss order 22 Gripen the Sweeds order 50 PC-21's to replace their Sk60 fleet.

[michel N]

There might be some logic in this rumour. Last year some PC-21's flew to Sweden, to be tested by the FMV. And since the SK-60 is quite old, it makes sense.

regards,

Michel

[doncorleone117]

Delivery of the first 11 Gripen E Mid 2018. From 2016 - 2018 the Swiss Air Force will lease 8 Gripen C and 3 Gripen D. Update and link in english will follow.

[Richard from Rotterdam]

There is a lot of controversy still going on in Switzerland, where contract signature is planned for 2013, but a possible referendum on the purchase might take place in 2014. So the SAAB contract is definitely not a done deal yet.


from: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.asp ... 489736.xml

EADS Could Offer Swiss Alternative To Saab Gripen Jet: Paper
By Reuters


August 27, 2012
EADS is prepared to offer Switzerland 33 Eurofighter jets built in 2003 with a price tag of 3.2 billion Swiss francs ($3.28 billion) to replace its fleet of ageing Northrop F-5E/F Tiger fighters, a newspaper reported on Sunday.

The Swiss government opted last November to buy 22 JAS-39 Gripens from Saab at a cost of 3.1 billion francs, over rival bids for the Rafale built by France’s Dassault Aviation and EADS’ Anglo-German-Italian Eurofighter Typhoon.

But the purchase decision has proved controversial due to concerns about the Gripen’s yet-to-be-developed technologies, possible cost overruns, and concomitant budget cuts in areas such as education.

The Swiss parliament is expected to vote on the purchase in coming months, and the head of the pro-business Free Democrats (FDP) indicated in a newspaper report that his party was unlikely to support the purchase, which could scupper the Swiss side of the deal.

The paper Der Sonntag said the EADS planes came from the German air force and were in excellent condition.

“EADS is always able to make offers within Switzerland’s budget framework,” the newspaper quoted a spokesman for the aircraft maker as saying. ($1 = 0.9752 Swiss francs)

[Stratofreighter]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-2 ... iming.html

Saab Closes in on Swiss Gripen Deal With Swedish Guarantees

Aug 28, 2012 2:58 PM GMT+0200

Switzerland will press ahead with an order for 22 Saab AB (SAABB) Gripen E/F fighter jets,
signing the firm contract as early as 2013 and making a first payment a year later,
Defense Minister Ueli Maurer said.

Sweden’s government will guarantee Switzerland a 3.1 billion Swiss franc ($3.2 billion) fixed price,
the delivery time frame and the technical performance of the aircraft as part of the deal,
Maurer said at a presentation in Thun, Switzerland.

Sweden and Switzerland could sign a firm contract as early as 2013
if Switzerland has no referendum on the Gripen deal,
or by mid-2014 if the country decides such a vote is necessary.

The Swiss government is scheduled in October to submit details of the Gripen program for parliamentary debate.

Switzerland will make a first payment to Saab of 300 million francs in 2014. The remaining payment schedule will be decided when the final contract is signed, Maurer said.

The Gripen is the best fit for Switzerland because “it was designed as a defense aircraft for a neutral country,” Maurer said.
The Gripen was “significantly cheaper” than competing offers and is the “sensible solution” rather than “the top of the top,” Maurer has said.

‘Full Agreement’

“We feel confident that this will lead to a full agreement,” Swedish Defence and Security Export Agency director general Ulf Hammarstroem said in a separate presentation in Stockholm.

Saab will lease Switzerland 11 Gripen C/D class fighter jets between 2016 and 2020 for 44 million francs per year as an interim solution
to replace its fleet of Northrop Grumman Corp. (NOC) F-5E Tigers.

Switzerland will treat the leased fighter jets “like a deposit,”
in state-to-state negotiations if Saab delays delivery of the new fighter jets,
Swiss Air Force Commander Markus Gygax said in an interview.

“We could have the C/Ds a little longer without having to pay as much,” he said. “That would be a good solution.”

Alternative compensation could be Gripens delivered with more weapons and higher-tech electronics, he said.

Each new Gripen E/F class jet is worth less than $100 million dollars per basic unit, Gygax said. He could not comment on how much of the 3.1 billion franc project cost would go to Saab.

Switzerland will receive 11 new Gripens by the end of 2019 and all 22 aircraft by 2021, the Swiss defense ministry said in a presentation.

Switzerland said August 24 that it had entered a framework agreement with Sweden for the purchase of 22 Gripen jets, completing a memorandum of understanding signed by the two countries on June 29.

The jets will begin delivering in 2018, later than 2016 time frame which Switzerland had first sought.

[Stratofreighter]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... storm.html

Row Jeopardises Purchase of New Military Jets

(Source: SwissInfo; published Nov. 7, 2012)

The government and the Swiss armed forces want to buy a new fighter jet: the Swedish Saab Gripen.

However, diverging opinions on the mission of the air force, the type and number of aircraft needed, threaten to bring a possible deal down.

Experts agree on one thing: It would only be required in order for the Swiss Air Force to carry out its mission of protecting national air space in the event of a terrorist attack.

Even the pacifist Switzerland without an Army group, which opposes the purchase of new planes, is not totally averse to the idea.

Defence expert Peter Felstead from the IHS Jane’s Defence Weekly publication says air combat fighters are best to conduct this kind of mission. A surface-to-air defence system surely offers protection, but it’s not optimal.

“Surface-to-air missiles are an efficient way to defend an air space, particularly within limited areas, but you can’t really fire off a warning shot with it, as you can do with an aircraft gun,” Felstead says.

Switzerland could also cooperate with other countries to accomplish this sky policing mission. But in addition to problems of sovereignty there are some technical issues as Yvan Perrin, a senior member of the rightwing Swiss People’s Party explains.

“Imagine a hijacking like on September 11, 2001 in the United States… A firing order must be given to shoot down a hostile aircraft; the authorities of the concerned country do so and the order may then transit through army staff in another country.”

“This would be very delicate, and I think by the time the pilot receives the order, it’s too late,” says Perrin, who sits on a parliamentary security policy committee.

Divide

The tasks of the air force also include air combat and the destruction of objects on the ground. But while sky police missions are not much disputed, quite the opposite applies to purely military missions.

There is a divide between the political left and the right. The Social Democrats and the Greens tend to think that a renewal of the air force is not justified as there is no real threat against Switzerland.

“The risk of a foreign military plane threatening Switzerland is very small,” says Social Democrat senator Géraldine Savary.

“Considering that the army must become leaner and more modern, this purchase will weigh on necessary investments,” she adds.

Perrin’s reasoning is different. “We certainly don’t have a foreign army setting up camp at our borders. But a purchase today is an investment for the next 30 years. It is a gamble on the future. You can’t risk going without an air force.”

Policing the skies

For those who advocate that the Swiss Air Force must above all carry out a sky police mission, the currently available means – a fleet of 33 F/A-18s – are for the moment sufficient and adequate.

“For the Social Democrats air space surveillance is sufficient,” says Savary. “We already have the necessary means at our disposal, and Switzerland also possesses some drones.”

“We really have pretty much everything we need to control the sky,” adds Christophe Barbey of the pacifist Switzerland without an Army group.

“Switzerland does not need any new planes to defend itself. Buying new planes still is and would always be considered as excessive. It’s a waste of money to satisfy the logic of war.”

It’s an opinion shared by Savary: “Are those planes really indispensable when we have to invest into health, transport and education?”

Increasing doubts

A majority in both parliamentary committees backs a renewal of the air force. They say the Tiger fleet has to be replaced, and the F/A-18 is starting to become dated.

At the end of a complex evaluation procedure, the cabinet and the armed forces picked the Swedish Gripen over the French Rafale and the European Eurofighter, notably for financial reasons.

“Fighter jets are indeed very expensive. That’s why it was expected that Switzerland would buy the Gripen.

As other European states such as Sweden, the Czech Republic and Hungary are using the same planes, the costs for support and maintenance may be reduced through an international cooperation,” the British specialist Felstead says.

However, critics say the Gripen fighter jet is less effective than its competitors. All of a sudden, even some advocates of the fighter jet have become sceptical.

“There is the saying ‘Buy in haste, repent at leisure’,” says Perrin. “It’s worrying to think that we will now buy an aircraft for the next 30 years, that’s already today largely obsolete.”

Crash in sight?

The acquisition of the new plane has yet to be discussed in parliament, and voters will most likely have the final say.

Observers say the plan got off to a bad start nearly three years ago. And it is widely expected that the left will reject the funding bill in parliament in 2013, but opposition could also come from the right.

“On the right, there is a real divide over the type of plane. I feel a lack of enthusiasm, even a real resistance, towards the Gripen,” says Savary.

A nationwide vote could very well reject the Swedish plane.

“Citizens are not really convinced about the necessity of buying a new plane,” says Perrin. He fears for the worst if they are told that parliament and the government chose an aircraft that does not really fulfil the criteria.


Tentative Program Timeline

- Nov 2012: Cabinet approval of latest armament programme.
- 2013: Parliament to discuss budget for armed forces , including acquisition for Gripen.
- 2014: Possible nationwide vote.
- 2018: First Gripen aircraft to be delivered.

-ends-

[hammarö]

Here is pictures of Gripen F.

http://www.svd.se/naringsliv/nyheter/va ... or=AD-500-[svd.se/naringsliv]-[]-[Textlank]-[aftonbladet]-[]-[]

It was newly shown in Switzerland.

[attila.szabo]

Here is pictures of Gripen F. It was newly shown in Switzerland.

Was it first not called Grippen NG?

[Stefan]

Here is pictures of Gripen F. It was newly shown in Switzerland.

Was it first not called Grippen NG?

NG is the general name, resulting in Gripen E for the single seat NG and Gripen F for the two-seater.

Regards,
Stefan

[hammarö]

Canada start discussions with 5 combat planes producers including Saab Gripen today the 25 January 2013

http://www.svd.se/naringsliv/kanada-tit ... 861062.svd