Malaysia Airlines MH370 missing.

[Bennie]

Sad news, it crashed into the sea, according news-sites :cry

Nothing confirmed yet, but it seems to be the case...
Kind of strange it takes so long to verify where 9M-MRO is, I mean... Flightradar24 shows more or less the last point where MH370 was 'seen' on radar. Hopefully they find out soon, especially for the pax' relatives!

The 'so-called' Flightradar is based on SBS data (broadcasted by an aircraft's transponder). No receivers in an area means no data!!! No mode-S transponder on board means the aircraft is not transmitting any data for Flightradar to be picked up, regardless of receivers in the area....

[cHabu]

No mode-S transponder on board means the aircraft is not transmitting any data for Flightradar to be picked up, regardless of receivers in the area....

Does this also mean an aircraft won't be picked up by ATC radar ?

[ehusmann]

Radar doesn't receive transmissions from aircraft, but emits signals and receives the bounce of an object. The emitted data is only used to identify the aircraft with the dot on the screen. But the dot is still visible if the aircraft stops emitting signals. However, there isn't radar everywhere....

Erwin

[Coati]

Radar doesn't receive transmissions from aircraft, but emits signals and receives the bounce of an object. The emitted data is only used to identify the aircraft with the dot on the screen. But the dot is still visible if the aircraft stops emitting signals. However, there isn't radar everywhere....

Erwin

Erwin, what you described is called Primary surveillance Radar used by military operators. SSR (secondary surveillance radar) whichis used by civilian ATC is in fact only receiving transmission data from aircraft (Mode S etc) and does not work with sending a signal and receiving the bounce of an object. So when the transmitters are shut off, SSR does not "see" an aircraft, also no dot will be visible.

Above the ocean, where there is no radar, surveillance is being done with ADs-C, in which position reports are triggered from the aircraft.


If, however, the target is an aircraft and you are an air-traffic controller, you will want to know a whole lot more. Enter secondary radar or, to give it its full title, Secondary Surveillance Radar (SSR).

Secondary radar
The big difference with SSR [compared to PSR] is that it doesn't rely on reflections. Aircraft are equipped with a transponder. This transponder transmits a 'reply' when it receives a radar 'interrogation' signal. The interrogation signal is completely separate from any primary signal. As the reply is not just a reflection much less power is needed, typically around 1kW for interrogation pulses, slightly less for replies. Range and direction can be determined from the SSR signal in much the same way as with primary radar, measuring the time between sending the interrogation and receiving the reply, making allowance for the turn-round delay in the transponder. The advantage of SSR is that all sorts of information can be encoded into the Transponder's reply.

[jeroenvn]

Dutch only and an picture which mail

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/wereld/ik-za ... 33401.html

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[Marcelb]

The email of someone working on an oil rig turned out to be false. Confirmed by BBC. No mentioning at all at Pprune.org

It seems VERY likely the aircraft turned back to KUL after something happened. All communications lost. No trace on secondary radar.
The military got some plot. We have to wait and see what this plot was.

My guess it crashed somewhere west of Malaysia.

[ehusmann]

Erwin, what you discribed is called Primary surveillance Radar used by military operators.

And who am I to question your knowledge in these matters. Thanks for the clarification.
In this case it is completely in line with what seems to be the case here. Civil radars lost contact while the aircraft was still on course, military radars found it again while it was flying in the opposite direction without transponder on. Well, if they finally figured out what they saw that is....

Erwin

[Stratofreighter]

The plot thickens...

http://www.nu.nl/buitenland/3724865/ver ... ntact.html

http://online.wsj.com/news/article_emai ... MzExNDMyWj

Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Engine Data Suggest Malaysia Flight Was Airborne Long After Radar Disappearance, U.S. Investigators Say

Updated March 13, 2014 12:50 a.m. ET

U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details,
raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.

Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co. 777's engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program.

A Malaysia Airlines official declined to comment. A Boeing executive who declined to be named would not comment except to say, "We've got to stand back from the front line of the information."

The engines' onboard monitoring system is provided by their manufacturer, Rolls-Royce,
and it periodically sends bursts of data about engine health, operations and aircraft movements to facilities on the ground.

"We continue to monitor the situation and to offer Malaysia Airlines our support," a Rolls-Royce representative said Wednesday,
declining further comment.

"The disappearance is officially now an accident and all information about this is strictly handled by investigators," said a Rolls-Royce executive who declined to be named,
citing rules of the International Civil Aviation Organization, a United Nations agency.

As part of its maintenance agreements, Malaysia Airlines transmits its engine data live to Rolls-Royce for analysis.
The system compiles data from inside the 777's two Trent 800 engines and transmits snapshots of performance, as well as the altitude and speed of the jet.

Those snippets are compiled and transmitted in 30-minute increments, said one person familiar with the system.
According to Rolls-Royce's website, the data is processed automatically "so that subtle changes in condition from one flight to another can be detected."

The engine data is being analyzed to help determine the flight path of the plane after the transponders stopped working.
The jet was originally headed for China, and its last verified position was half way across the Gulf of Thailand.

A total flight time of five hours after departing Kuala Lumpur means the Boeing 777 could have continued for an additional distance of about 2,200 nautical miles,
reaching points as far as the Indian Ocean,
the border of Pakistan or even the Arabian Sea, based on the jet's cruising speed.

...that Wall Street Journal story is worth a quick glance, at least...

[Marcelb]

The unidentified radar plot seen on military radar flying FL295 might have been Singapore SQ38 from SIN to BCN according two posts on Pprune.

So 5 days later and not a single clue about the whereabouts of the aircraft.

[slednah]

Excuse me for misunderstanding things but:

If the plane flew on for hours, and:
It has been seen on military radar, or not?

How can it fly on for hours without radio contact and or even crashing on to another plane in the air? It flew on for hours without hitting anything on it's track; isn't that strange?

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[Optimus]

I'm highly skeptical about the plane flying on for some hours whilst remaining undetected and possibly flying over populated areas. If local radars in an area, in which regional tensions are not uncommon, cannot detect a plane leaving its original flightplan, then what's the use of having stealth technology on fighter planes if in many areas in the world you will not be detected and or intercepted?

I know it's not the place to be sarcastic, but the way the Malaysian authorities are dealing with this situation, makes my stomach turn and comparable with an episode of Monthy Python. The way they are treating this tragedy is giving way for a lot of BS-stories on which the worlwide media is preying (crazy theories, misinterpretations of various so-called official sources and people looking for their 15 minutes of fame). Luckily the report of the engines sending out data for four hours has been ruled out.

Let's wait for something to finally emerge (from the waters, in my opinion), instead of all the weird Hollywood scenarios popping up...

Kees

[Stratofreighter]

Re that Wall Street Journal piece: now also see this addition from http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

On Mar 13th 2014 afternoon Malaysia's Transport Minister said in a televised press conference,
that the last ACARS transmission was received from the aircraft at 01:07L (17:07Z),
there were no later transmissions via ACARS
(editorial note: which effectively states a report by a single US "news" paper of the engines monitoring recording information via ACARS for 4 more hours is untrue),
the last transmission received from the aircraft indicated all systems were operating normally.

[cHabu]

I don't know if this is the same SWJ article:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 3396580350

"Satellite Data Reveal Route of Missing Malaysia Airlines Plane
Jetliner 'Pinged' Satellites With Location, Altitude for Hours After Disappearance

WSJ's Andy Pasztor has been reporting on Flight MH370 since it disappeared. Here he explains how a plane can still transmit "pings" that allow investigators to track it even after its main tracking systems — or transponders — are shut off.

Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU +2.13% ' missing jet transmitted its location repeatedly to satellites over the course of five hours after it disappeared from radar, people briefed on the matter said, as searchers zeroed in on new target areas hundreds of miles west of the plane's original course.

The satellites also received speed and altitude information about the plane from its intermittent "pings," the people said. The final ping was sent from over water, at what one of these people called a normal cruising altitude. They added that it was unclear why the pings stopped. One of the people, an industry official, said it was possible that the system sending them had been disabled by someone on board."

[slednah]

According to the news today the plane was hijacked. Question now is by whom why and where did they hide the plane...

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[Viper]

Here the full text of todays press conference. http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-color ... r-1.514405