RAF Vulcan experts-req for unit ID

[tomh]

I'm hoping Scramble has a Vulcan expert who can help me positively identify the following three insignias

The first one below was on a Vulcan B.1 photographed in 1960



This next two were on Vulcans in the mid-1970s






Thanks-Tomh

[Hans Rolink]

Tom,

in general, the red cross on the white shield signified the City of Lincoln. It could be found on Vulcans from most squadrons. Both final Vulcan bases RAF Scampton and RAF Waddington were near that city.
The center badge is from No. 230 Operational Conversion Unit which trained Vulcan crews.

Hope this helps.

Hans.

[Dude]

Tom,

in general, the red cross on the white shield signified the City of Lincoln. It could be found on Vulcans from most squadrons. Both final Vulcan bases RAF Scampton and RAF Waddington were near that city.
The center badge is from No. 230 Operational Conversion Unit which trained Vulcan crews.

Hope this helps.

Hans.

Damn Hans you get smarter by the day

[Hans Rolink]

Damn Hans you get smarter by the day

Always had a soft spot for anything British.

Hans.

[Stephan Lodewijks]

Always had a soft spot for anything British.

...ummm.....Margareth Thatcher?????

Respect man, your one of a kind!!

[P.Terlouw]

first and last badge is of the Waddington Wing which represents the City of Lincoln crest. In the early days it sometimes had a light blue background.

the second badge is from no.230 OCU based at RAF Waddington (1956-1969) and then to RAF Scampton (1969-1981)

[Hans Rolink]

Always had a soft spot for anything British.

...ummm.....Margareth Thatcher?????

Respect man, your one of a kind!!

Well, she did rid Blighty of Arthur Scargill!
And one of a kind I sure hope to be

Hans.

[SPERX]

"" Well, she did rid Blighty of Arthur Scargill!
And one of a kind I sure hope to be

Hans. ""

Along with the coal mining industry; heavy engineering; most manufacturing industry; decent social housing; much of the Royal Navy just before the Falklands War; a significant chunk of the RAF including the Vulcans the last few of which had to be patched up using parts recovered from museum aircraft around the world for service in her fortuitous Falklands War. The RAF Phantoms were withdrawn from service early whlst they still had plenty of airframe life available and before Tornado F3 was fully operational. Likewise the Buccaneers were withdrawn long before it was necessary.

Recently published documents also suggest that she opposed the re-unification of Germany on the grounds that she feared an over-powerful reunified Germany rather more than she feared the Soviet Union. Interesting double standards for someone who liked to be seen as a champion of individual freedom.

And what did she introduce? Oh yes, over-reliance on the Financial Services sector - and just look where that got us.

[Hans Rolink]

"" Well, she did rid Blighty of Arthur Scargill!
And one of a kind I sure hope to be

Hans. ""

Along with the coal mining industry; heavy engineering; most manufacturing industry; decent social housing; much of the Royal Navy just before the Falklands War; a significant chunk of the RAF including the Vulcans the last few of which had to be patched up using parts recovered from museum aircraft around the world for service in her fortuitous Falklands War. The RAF Phantoms were withdrawn from service early whlst they still had plenty of airframe life available and before Tornado F3 was fully operational. Likewise the Buccaneers were withdrawn long before it was necessary.

Recently published documents also suggest that she opposed the re-unification of Germany on the grounds that she feared an over-powerful reunified Germany rather more than she feared the Soviet Union. Interesting double standards for someone who liked to be seen as a champion of individual freedom.

And what did she introduce? Oh yes, over-reliance on the Financial Services sector - and just look where that got us.

You´re right, there´s another side to every coin. What I was referring to was the chaos in the winter of 1978-79.



Hans.

[tomh]

Thanks all for the replies. OK then, well, I see I should have jumped in with a "thank you" before the Maggie critique got rolling. So, with the City of Lincoln badge, was it on both sides of the tailfin, or should I check my negs to see what the opposite side tailfin might show to determine the squadron of assignment?

Sentimental Phantom attachment aside, I've always wondered just what the max Mach on the British Phantoms was with those fat Speys side by side. From what I've heard it takes most any Phantom quite a while to approach Mach II. I recall a couple of sweaty Phantom jocks coming out of ops during a big exercise with one exclaiming to the other, "Damn those F111s, you just can't catch them when they're on the deck like that". But I suppose the Bucaneer was capable of bringing about much the same exasperation from the fighter drivers.

[SPERX]

Thanks all for the replies. OK then, well, I see I should have jumped in with a "thank you" before the Maggie critique got rolling. So, with the City of Lincoln badge, was it on both sides of the tailfin, or should I check my negs to see what the opposite side tailfin might show to determine the squadron of assignment?

Sentimental Phantom attachment aside, I've always wondered just what the max Mach on the British Phantoms was with those fat Speys side by side. From what I've heard it takes most any Phantom quite a while to approach Mach II. I recall a couple of sweaty Phantom jocks coming out of ops during a big exercise with one exclaiming to the other, "Damn those F111s, you just can't catch them when they're on the deck like that". But I suppose the Bucaneer was capable of bringing about much the same exasperation from the fighter drivers.

I d/k what the figures are but I read somewhere that the Spey powered F4s were slower than the P&W powered ones because their demand for air meant that the UK versions had wider intakes and that in turn messed up the area ruling. In another book somewhere in my library a Bucc pilot describes how they could run away from most A/D fighters at low level. Interestingly both the UK F4s and the Buccs had Spey engines, albeit with reheat added to the F4 engines. Blackburn must have got the aerodynamics spot on if you compare the performance.

As for the F111s, well back in about 1991 I was VERY LUCKY and got a trip in one from Upper Heyford. Part of the demonstration out over the North Sea was the "combat escape manoevre" - starting at FL170 and 420 KIAS we simultaneously rolled inverted; swept the wings; plugged in the burners and pulled nose down and presto 1.2M within about 15 seconds and a big boom over the oil rigs below! Happy Days........

[tomh]

the UK versions had wider intakes and that in turn messed up the area ruling

Exactly, SPERX. The only way they could have retained the desired airflow
characteristics would have been to lengthen the aircraft about 6 feet, and that wasn't gonna happen. The Bucc as we know, we designed with what appeared to exaggerated area rule, and wasn't supersonic on the level. I don't know if they missed the mark in top speed, or if that area-ruled fuselage resulted in high subsonic mach cruise with low fuel burn benefit. Always an interesting aircraft, and another of the many from the other side of the pond that I have never seen.

starting at FL170 and 420 KIAS we simultaneously rolled inverted; swept the wings; plugged in the burners and pulled nose down and presto 1.2M within about 15 seconds

Oh yeah, you got me pinned to my office chair with that description!

Slightly-related prediction-When USAF gets around to replacing the T-38, it will be with a subsonic aircraft.