Lynx + crew captured in Libya - Comments

Kleintje Pils · Post by **Kleintje Pils** » 03 Mar 2011, 09:37

Hmm so Khadaffi now has something to trade for the 2 Mirages...

Polecat · Post by **Polecat** » 03 Mar 2011, 09:44

or a preserved Dutch Lynx in the Sirte Liberation Museum..

Just hope the guys get to go home soon..

mwpeters · Post by **mwpeters** » 03 Mar 2011, 10:09

Formally seen the Dutch military attacked the Libyian sovereignity, as no UN mandate is active at the moment which allows other countries to "invade" Libyia. So the Libyians are allowed to capture our men and take them in custody untill the case is formally investigated. Despite this, I hope the military people can come back very soon.

phkza · Post by **phkza** » 03 Mar 2011, 10:13

That's bad news! Hopefully there will be a diplomatic solution to get the airmen back.

Glidepath · Post by **Glidepath** » 03 Mar 2011, 11:22

mwpeters wrote:Formally seen the Dutch military attacked the Libyian sovereignity, as no UN mandate is active at the moment which allows other countries to "invade" Libyia. So the Libyians are allowed to capture our men and take them in custody untill the case is formally investigated. Despite this, I hope the military people can come back very soon.

indeed,
and : 'kidnapped' is thus NOT the right word.
Rather say they are taken captive, perhaps even officially arrested after violating Lybian airspace in an millitary air vehicle and landing during an uprise / rebellion, in a time civil war can not be excluded in the near future. It is just like that.
So far the Germans and Britons have been lucky with their transport missions in Lybia.

Lybia will get the jets back anyway. sooner or later, with or without mr. Khadaffi as head of state.
For the Lynx, if still intact, it is not that certain. (local sitution offers no guarantee to anyone or anything).

Do not be surprised if the crew is killed (immediately), heavilly interrogated or put on (mil.) swift (field) 'snelrecht' trail for espionage. The situation is not 'normal' and even that was no tea party for prisoners. (recall the doctors and nurses jailed there).
'Anything else' is 'luck' for those chaps and could prove that at least part of the (still rightful) government troops and police are well under (and in) control regarding law enforcement.

if anything: lessons to be learned for the dutch navy / dhc......

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 03 Mar 2011, 11:26

Typical "If it ain't Dutch, It ain't much"

Rescuing people in hostile area with a 'antique' helicopter who you can hear from miles, isn't smart.

Thermal · Post by **Thermal** » 03 Mar 2011, 11:29

Unbelievable, the Brits successfully get hundreds of people out without the Lybians knowing it.
The Dutch have to pick up 2 (!!) people and f*ck up.

So far the Germans and Britons have been lucky with their transport missions in Lybia.

Lucky? I call it 'better prepared'

I really feel sorry for the crew since they can not be blamed but yet they are the ones taken prisoner.

Well done Dutch DoD! Talk about crappy intelligence. New you have given Kadaffi bargaining money. He can blackmail the Dutch government in not supporting new UN resolutions etc.

Bravo!

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » 03 Mar 2011, 11:40

Thermal wrote:Unbelievable, the Brits successfully get hundreds of people out without the Lybians knowing it.
The Dutch have to pick up 2 (!!) people and f*ck up.

So far the Germans and Britons have been lucky with their transport missions in Lybia.
Lucky? I call it 'better prepared'

I really feel sorry for the crew since they can not be blamed but yet they are the ones taken prisoner.

Well done Dutch DoD! Talk about crappy intelligence. New you have given Kadaffi bargaining money. He can blackmail the Dutch government in not supporting new UN resolutions etc.

Bravo!

If you don't know anything about the situation, and you don't, than please don't judge like that.

Polecat · Post by **Polecat** » 03 Mar 2011, 11:51

Maurice wrote: If you don't know anything about the situation, and you don't, than please don't judge like that.

true...

fact is however that something went horribly wrong and that we weren't able to match the success of the Brits... (for whatever reason(s))

It is also a fact that the outcome is uncertain, and that we can only hope these guys make it back home safely....

ehusmann · Post by **ehusmann** » 03 Mar 2011, 12:01

Polecat wrote:fact is however that something went horribly wrong and that we weren't able to match the success of the Brits... (for whatever reason(s))

Fact is, we don´t even know that. This happened Sunday. We do not know how many (if any) the Dutch extracted before that, or after that. Also, we do not know if any British missions failed and if any British soldiers are being held.
And in the end, the mission can be seen as succesful, since the two Dutch people they were supposed to extract are in fact out of the country right now. That was the mission, it just went a little different.

Erwin

Richard from Rotterdam · Post by **Richard from Rotterdam** » 03 Mar 2011, 12:04

The differences between the British rescue missions and the Dutch one are obvious:

The British flew into an airfield in an area that is rebel-controlled. Even though they were shot at, that was by rebels who mistook the aircraft for Libyan military.

Sirte, where the Dutch crew went, is the one remaining Kaddafi stronghold after Tripoli. It sounds slightly naive to me that you are going to try to rescue people by slow flying helicopter in an area where you know government controlled militias patrol the streets.

The three crew we will probably see back in Holland in the not too distant future, but I guess we can consider the Lynx a write-off.

Polecat · Post by **Polecat** » 03 Mar 2011, 12:11

ehusmann wrote:
Polecat wrote:
And in the end, the mission can be seen as succesful, since the two Dutch people they were supposed to extract are in fact out of the country right now. That was the mission, it just went a little different.

Erwin

don't think nowadays anyone would consider a two-for-three swap successful, or even any mission where men have to be left behind...

jp 74 · Post by **jp 74** » 03 Mar 2011, 12:16

Maybe a lesson learned fot the DoD that whitout a proper csar chopper and backup (fighters or gunship and special forces) a resue in a hostile country is nearly impossable.
If you decide to take a 3 crewed lynx for such a task you can expect trouble.
I feel sorry for the crew because they are probably in a horrable posistion and i hope they return home unharmed instead of a box.

leonard van T · Post by **leonard van T** » 03 Mar 2011, 12:56

In 1964 the Libyians also "captured" an MLD (Dutch navy) aircraft, a S-2 Tracker was flown to Libya by a mechanic !
we got that one back, so hopefully history repeats it self!

Leonard

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » 03 Mar 2011, 13:14

Maurice wrote:If you don't know anything about the situation, and you don't, than please don't judge like that.

Hear hear!!

Regards,
Stefan

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