french Ouragans

[mirage 69]

Hello,
can somebody help me with the serials from the French MD.450 Ouragan.
I've been looking all over the web but can not find a list from all serials..'

Thanks Rene

[frank kramer]

Checked the book "Les Matériels de l'Armée de l'Air, tome 1, MD450 Ouragan" (Sébastien Guillemin, uitg: Histoire & Collections) and this leads to the following:

prototypes: 01, 02, 03
preserie: 1,2,3,4*,5,6,7,8,9,10,11**,12,13***,14**** (all carried reg on tail and nose except 13, 14)
*: strictly not an Ouragan; was completed as protype MD451/452
**: known as MD450.30L (30mm cannon and lateral air intakes instead of nose intake)
***: nosemarking "01" instead of "13", "13" on tail
****: nosemarking "02" instead of "14", "14" on tail

main order for Armée de l'Air: 350 aircraft, numbered 101 through to (at least) 450 (see remark with Indian Ouragans below)
-first 50 were designated MD450A, the rest (with modifications) were known as MD450B
-no 140, 223, 225 and 336 were completed as "Barougans", having twin main wheels with low-pressure tyres and a braking parachute for rough field operations
- the Israeli AF ordered 24 + 47 Ouragans that were diverted from the AdlA order; c/n's not known by me except for no 218 and 328, both preserved at Hatzerim
- the last remaining 18 of these were transferred to El Salvador in the 1970's
- India ordered 71 new MD450B Ouragans; they appear to have been included in the "regular" range of c/n's (cn 245 and 285 amongst others), which MIGHT indicate that the AdlA registrations may have gone higher than no.450
- India also placed a follow-on order for 33 more; 20 of these came from the AdlA order (c/n 422 being one of them), the rest was new.

So, production SHOULD number 3+13+350+71+13=450

hope this helps!

Edit: there also is a book on Israeli Ouragans published by IsraCast; haven't got that one (yet) but it might hold clues as to the Israeli c/n's...

[mirage 69]

Hi Frank,
certainly this helps!
Glad you read that book.....thanks!!

Rene

[frank kramer]

Oh well, let's say we apparently share an interest in the AdlA (in my case, mostly the post-1945 part) and its aircraft. I'm happy the information was helpful.

PS: the series "Les matériels... etc" is well worth the buy, especially if you don't mind reading French, as it is relatively cheap and has lots of photo's and profiles as well as the most essential information.

[Arjan]

Below is the following information I have on serials from the Ouragan

Israel Ouragans

Nr. 10 picture prof
Nr. 11 in Hatzerim preserved
Nr. 20 picture proof
Nr. 26 picture proof
Nr. 49 in Hatzerim (c/n 332) preserved
Nr. 50 picture proof
Nr. 54 picture proof
Nr. 66 picture proof
nr. 68 in Haifa Museum (there is a picture on the internet of a Israelian Ouragan with #84 on the tail and #64 on the nose but it doesn't look like a mispainted serial??)
Nr. 69 in Hatzerim (stored) (c/n 204)
Nr. 70 in Hatzor (used to be "04")
Nr. 72 in Maayan Baruch
Nr. 77 picture proof but with 777 on nose!
Nr. 80 in Hatzerim (c/n 234)
Nr. 94 in Hatzerim (stored) (c/n 328)
Nr. 108 in Hatzerim (stored) (c/n 233)
NR. 113 in Hatzerim
Nr. 145 picture proof

For crossreference:
c/n 204 serial# 69
c/n 233 serial# 94
c/n 234 serial# 80
c/n 328 serial# 94
c/n 332 serial# 49
--------------------
For the serials of the El Salvador Ouragans, I have the following:
18 delivered ex Israel in october 1974. Six destroyed in guerilla raid on Ilopango AB in January 1982
"007" WFU Ilopango (fake serial)
700 w/o Ilopango 1982
701 wfu Ilopango
702 ??
703 w/o Ilopango 1982
704 ??
705 Nose Ilopango Museum
706 Preserved Ilopango Museum
707 Wfu Ilopango (c/n 218)
708 w/o 18-8-76
709 Preserved Ilopango
710 w/o 15-7-78
711 ??
712 ??
713 Ilopango Museum
714 WFU Ilopango c/n 185)
715 ?? last seen 7.78
716 Ilopango para school
717 ?? last seen 7.78

Crossreference
C/n 185 serial#714
C/n 218 serial#707
----------------------------------------------------
India known Ouragans
IC553 Picture proof
IC554 Indian Air Force Museum Palam
IC555 Picture proof
IC556 Picture proof
IC567 Lucknow
IC568 Picture proof
IC578 Dundigal
IC585 NDA Khadakvasla Pune
IC692 could also be 693..picture on internet
IC698 Belly landing in Pakistan (picture proof)
IC867 Hashimari (paintjob on the picture looks fake!)
Presumably the follow up order received the higher numbers in the 600 range. But if the original order of 71 received the 500 range serials......where did they start? I have read a story that the first four are the IC553 to IC556. The picture also looks like a factory picture!

c/n 245 ??
c/n 285 ??
c/n 422 ex Adla to IAF

-----------------------------------------------------
French Ouragans as listed in sources:
#2 in St. Laurent sur Manoire
#8 in Albert (c/n
#103 flew with CEV, scrapped at Bretigny? (third aircraft of the first full production batch)
#119 Picture in AdlA c/s
#140 first Barougan
#154 in Le Bourget / Musee de l'Air (c/n 154)
#155 Picture with Patrouille de France
#168 Picture proof with AdlA
#187/UI in Tours (c/n 187)
#214 in Montelimar-Ancone (c/n 214)
#215 in Savigny les Beaune (carries fake serial 251) (c/n 215)
#223 third Barougan, re-converted to Ouragan in 1952
#225 fourth Barougan, re-converted to Ouragan in 1952
#227 in Tours (carries fake serial 205/TO) (c/n 227)
#230 in Savigny les Beaune (carries fake serial 450) (c/n 230)
#231 in Chateaudun (c/n 231)
#232 in CAEA Bordeaux Merignac (c/n 232)
#241 picture proof with AdlA
#293 picture proof with AdlA as UY
#297 in Romorantin (cn 297)
#320/UQ in Bruxelles Museum (c/n 320)
#336 second Barougan
#338 Picture proof with CEV (foto caption told this was a late production Ouragan!)
I am seriously in doubt of the construction numbers given to the French Ouragans in various sources. I believe it is assumed that the c/n equals the serial. Which is probably not the case. My guess is that the first production Ouragan serial 100, carries c/n 1. Dassault never started an construction number range starting in the 100.
The Ouragan in Albert doesn't look like a prototype aircraft and could very well be serial 108 if the c/n is 8! If it is a prototype aircraft than the c/n would be 08. Same would go for the aircraft in St. Laurent as being 102?
The question is what happened to the brand new Ouragans for India. Did they receive a different c/n batch or do they share the c/n with the AdlA examples. Are the AdlA serials linked to the c/n's and indeed ending at 450 or going higher than 450. This would indeed indicate that the Indian examples share the c/n range, unfortunetaly I can't find reports or pictures of an aircraft with a serial higher than 338. See also below the list for further explanation

Guessed cross reference total fleet for c/n known:(I think it is safer to call it guessed ) Correct me when I am wrong!
c/n 02 serial#2 in St. Laurent sur Manoire or is c/n 2 and serial 102!
c/n 08 serial#8 in Albert or is c/n 8 and serial 108!
c/n 3 serial#103 flew with CEV, scrapped at Bretigny? (third aircraft of the first full production batch)
c/n 19 serial#119 Picture in AdlA c/s
c/n 40 serial#140 first Barougan
c/n 54 serial#154 in Le Bourget / Musee de l'Air (c/n 154)
c/n 55 serial#155 Picture with Patrouille de France
c/n 68 serial#168 Picture proof with AdlA
c/n 87 serial#187/UI in Tours (c/n 187)
c/n 114 serial#214 in Montelimar-Ancone (c/n 214)
c/n 115 serial#215 in Savigny les Beaune (carries fake serial 251) (c/n 215)
c/n 123 serial#223 third Barougan, re-converted to Ouragan in 1952
c/n 125 serial#225 fourth Barougan, re-converted to Ouragan in 1952
c/n 127 serial#227 in Tours (carries fake serial 205/TO) (c/n 227)
c/n 130 serial#230 in Savigny les Beaune (carries fake serial 450) (c/n 230)
c/n 131 serial#231 in Chateaudun (c/n 231)
c/n 132 serial#232 in CAEA Bordeaux Merignac (c/n 232)
c/n 141 serial#241 picture proof with AdlA
c/n 185 serial#714 via Adla to Israel, eventually ended up in El Salvador
c/n 193 serial#293 picture proof with AdlA as UY
c/n 197 serial#297 in Romorantin (cn 297)
c/n 204 serial#69 via AdlA to Israel
c/n 218 serial#707 via Adla to Israel, eventually ended up in El Salvador
c/n 220 serial#320/UQ in Bruxelles Museum (c/n 320)
c/n 233 serial#94 via Adla to Israel
c/n 234 serial#80 via Adla to Israel
c/n 236 serial#336 second Barougan
c/n 238 serial#338 Picture proof with CEV (foto caption told this was a late production Ouragan!)
c/n 245 To India AF (ex AdlA?)
c/n 285 To India AF (ex AdlA?)
c/n 328 serial#94 via Adla to Israel
c/n 332 serial#49 via Adla to Israel
c/n 422 To India AF (ex Adla, follow up order)

The first order was placed on 31/8/1950 for 150 aircraft. Later this was augmented with another 200! The first production jet flew on 5/12/1951. However, please note that the aircraft was allready taken out of front line service in 1955 soldiering on in training roles untill 1961.
The Indian order came in june 1953 and was fully delivered in march 1954. In 1957 the Ouragan was also delivered to Israel.
Given the c/n known it seems that 422 is sticking out! Is this a c/n of an AdlA Ouragan or the serial and in fact the c/n being 322. Otherwise with my theorie the c/n 422 plus 100 gives the AdlA serial 522 which leaves a rather big gap with the other known French serials.
Because of the short life span and the start of the production of the Mystere in 1954 I somewhat doubt that all 450 Ouragans really have been built. It could very well be only 350 examples with the last built examples going to India or to Israel.
About the Indian Air Force order, Frank mentions 71 originals plus 33 extra (some out of AdlA stock) but the Dassault website mentions 113 Ouragans in service with the India AF.

But I admit that a lot is guesswork. But like I said, correct me if I am wrong!




Source: internet, http://www.airliners.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, EMOOS, World Air Forces Directory 2009/10 and European Air Forces Directory 2007/08, + info from Frank

[mirage 69]

Thanks Arjan,

I think that this could not be solved but I like the plane.
That's the reason why I want to know more about it.
Your detailed story is much appreciated!! Thnx Rene