New KLM A330s

[76-er]

Edit: split from this one.

Just received some info from KLM flight operations regarding A333:
three are ordered, with an option on five.
Delivery of next -200: dec2013
Delivery of -300: feb, march and april 2012

No horizontal rest, routings could be: jfk, acc, cai, del, yul, ika and ord.

Nothing on airbus.com yet....

The fact that they appear to have no crewrest indicates they will not be used in a separate, high density longhaul config to operate former MP routes.

[Piet Luijken]

In my opinion not related as MP B767 did not have a horizontal crewrest either.

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[B767-300ER]

Thats right, but the KLM A330 CAO is different from the MP 767 CAO
In the KLM 330 CAO is taken a up a paragraph about crewrest and heavy crew flights, because the 330 has no horizontal crewrest (as the 777 en 744 and m11 have).
I believe it was max 25% of the 330 flights that fly with heavy crew.
Corrrect me if I am wrong, but is, as 76-er stated, certainly an issue if you want to fly to the carribean..
Or will the A333 replace some 772/m11,744 routes so these can be used for the caraibbean?

[Piet Luijken]

Let me look it up:
The horizontal crewrest is only needed according KLM CAO for long haul flights, flight time more than 12:30 or working time more than 14.30 hr.
According the law it is even more than that, basic time is 17 hr, three man crew, or 18 hr, four man crew.

Flighttime to Cancun, eg, is 13:15 so horizontal crewrest is needed for KLM flights, so no A330. However, flighttime CUR is 11:30 so no horizontal rest needed, so it could be flown by the A330. ( times from KLM timetable )

Indeed, it is strange, there is no mentioning of future MP routes in my information. Maybe it is depending on all the talks needed for the switch, maybe KLM will dispose these routes after all.

[76-er]

Here's the CAO text that applies to the 332:

"Op basis van het verwachte routepakket van de A-330/200 is een horizontale rustgelegenheid niet noodzakelijk en wordt afgesproken dat niet meer dan 25% van de door de A-300/200 uitgevoerde reiscycli, trajecten zullen bevatten met meer dan 9 vlieguren of een GVDT van meer dan 12:30 uur"

Clear as a bell.

[maybe we should move the last few postings to the KLM-speculation corner..]

[B767-300ER]

Let me look it up:
The horizontal crewrest is only needed according KLM CAO for long haul flights, flight time more than 12:30 or working time more than 14.30 hr.
According the law it is even more than that, basic time is 17 hr, three man crew, or 18 hr, four man crew.

Flighttime to Cancun, eg, is 13:15 so horizontal crewrest is needed for KLM flights, so no A330. However, flighttime CUR is 11:30 so no horizontal rest needed, so it could be flown by the A330.

.

little off-topic
Flighttime to CUN is 11.30hr..., CUR is 10.30hr....
According to MP's website.

Here's the CAO text that applies to the 332:

"Op basis van het verwachte routepakket van de A-330/200 is een horizontale rustgelegenheid niet noodzakelijk en wordt afgesproken dat niet meer dan 25% van de door de A-300/200 uitgevoerde reiscycli, trajecten zullen bevatten met meer dan 9 vlieguren of een GVDT van meer dan 12:30 uur"

Clear as a bell.

[maybe we should move the last few postings to the KLM-speculation corner..]

Is this specified as a332 of a330?

[76-er]

-200 only. Back to the negotiating table for the -3.

[PHKLM]

-200 only. Back to the negotiating table for the -3.

As the -300 has less range and hence shorter flights I assume it will be either no problem or the same as on the -200.

[pjotrtje]

As the -300 has less range and hence shorter flights I assume it will be either no problem or the same as on the -200.

"Don't underestimate the power of... the VNV" In the pragmatic world you are right, however the words "union" and "pragmatic" seldom go together!

[Piet Luijken]

Furthermore, there will be no center tank installed.
But, this is not used very much on the -200 either, says KLM.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[76-er]

Furthermore, there will be no center tank installed.
But, this is not used very much on the -200 either, says KLM.

Interesting. I guess KLM will not opt for the maximum available takeoff weight then, a difference of 3000kg.

[nemaco]

Configurations and delivery dates below, source KLM intranet 15-11-2010

A330-300
On order 01 PH-333-1 tbd1 Feb 2012 CF6-80E1A3 30C 40Y 224M
On order 02 PH-333-2 tbd2 Mar 2012 CF6-80E1A3 30C 40Y 224M
On order 03 PH-333-3 tbd3 Apr 2012 CF6-80E1A3 30C 40Y 224M

A330-200
On order 12 PH-AON tbd Jan 2013 CF6-80E1A3 30C 35Y 178M

[nemaco]

I understood that the four 767's of Martinair will be changed for three new KLM A333's to take over the Martinair routes.

I read that PH-MCJ will leave the fleet on January 2011. PH-MCI, PH-MCL, PH-MCM will leave the Martinair fleet at the end of the summer schedule, 30 October 2011.

The KLM A333's will be delivered on February, March and April 2012. Which aircraft will fly the former Martinair routes from 31 October 2011 untill april 2012?

Just received some info from KLM flight operations regarding A333:
three are ordered, with an option on five.
Delivery of next -200: dec2013
Delivery of -300: feb, march and april 2012

No horizontal rest, routings could be: jfk, acc, cai, del, yul, ika and ord.

And regarding MD11: they will not receive their next Dcheck, and wil leave KLM between 2015 and 2016.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[B767-300ER]

Look at the buffers

[nemaco]

At this moment there is a continuous lack of KLM aircraft (especiallly due to technical reasons) for the KLM operation since the airline industry has improved or am I wrong?

If the airline industry improvement goes on, which is the expectation for this moment, they will need more and more KLM aircraft, especially from 31 October 2011. Untill 31 October 2011 only one B773 will be added to the longhaul fleet in February 2011.

Look at the buffers