Chengdu J-20, China's first Stealth fighter...

ImageForum for news and discussions on miltary aviation matters.

Forum rules
Image
User avatar
Stratofreighter
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 22196
Joined: 25 Jan 2006, 08:02
Location: Netherlands

Chengdu J-20, China's first Stealth fighter...

Post by Stratofreighter »

Image

Image

Image

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/12 ... h-fighter/
Is This China’s First Stealth Fighter?

By David Axe December 27, 2010 | 12:01 am | Categories: China

They could be the products of a Chinese government misinformation campaign.

They could be clever Photoshop jobs by Chinese aviation fanboys.

Or they could be the real thing: the first hard evidence of the long-rumored Chengdu J-20, China’s first stealth-fighter prototype.

The above photo and several others surfaced over the Christmas weekend on Chinese Internet forums, catching the eye of Aviation Week fighter guru Bill Sweetman.

Sweetman, a noted skeptic in the sometimes enthusiastic world of fast-jet journalism, stressed that the pics might be fakes.

Fantastical Photoshop art is a hallmark of Chinese military-themed Websites.

See the giant, flying “heli-carrier,” or the submarine flattop — both creations of over-excited Chinese Photoshoppers.

But there are hints that the J-20 photos are for real — and that much clearer shots exist, somewhere.

“Rumor has it that better shots have put in transient appearances on Chinese Websites before being zapped by the censor,” Sweetman wrote.

That those rumored photos were yanked is itself perhaps proof that Beijing really does have a new fighter.

“In China’s military fan Web culture, the rapid intervention of the censors is always a boost for the credibility of the poster,” aviation journalist Rick Fisher told Sweetman.

Most convincingly, the airplane depicted in the snapshots apparently has many of the right characteristics for a fifth-generation stealth-fighter prototype: a chiseled front-section, triangular wings, all-moving tailplanes.

In fact, the supposed J-20 seems to combine the front fuselage of the U.S. Air Force’s F-22 with the back half of Russia’s T-50 stealth prototype, which appeared a little less than a year ago.


If it’s real — and that’s a big if — the J-20’s appearance could signal a big step forward for the Chinese air force, which to date relies mostly on airplanes bought from Russia or reverse-engineered from Russian or Israeli designs.

Panicky Western air-power advocates, who a year ago claimed America would be “less safe” if the Pentagon pressed forward with plans to end production of the F-22 stealth fighter at 187 copies, might just announce the end of America’s 50-year dominance of the skies.

Alarmists made similar claims when the Russia’s new T-50 fighter first flew, despite that plane’s many non-stealthy attributes and dubious production prospects.

The Pentagon hasn’t had a chance to comment on the J-20 photos, but is likely to remain sanguine.

In deliberations over the F-22, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates acknowledged that the Chinese were working on a stealth fighter, but insisted the Communist country would have “no fifth-generation aircraft by 2020,” while the U.S. would have more than a thousand F-22s and F-35s.

In the year-and-a-half since Gates made that claim, the Pentagon has delayed F-35 production and China has apparently accelerated its own stealth development — alleged J-20 photos aside — but the spirit of Gates’ assertion remains valid.

Even if the photos are real and the J-20 exists as more than blueprints, there’s probably no cause for alarm.

The U.S. flew its first stealth prototypes — the YF-22 and rival YF-23 — in 1990; the J-20 hasn’t even flown yet.

It took 15 years for the F-22 to enter front-line service; considering China’s quality-control problems with high technology, it could take a decade or more for the J-20 to appear in numbers that make any difference in the Pacific balance of power.

Gates might have been slightly off in his assessment of the Chinese air force, but probably not by much.

And that’s all assuming Beijing’s Christmas stealth-fighter surprise isn’t all just Photoshop magic.

With so little good information on military hardware coming out of China, fighter fakery is a real prospect.

In which case, we’ll keep waiting for China’s first stealth fighter to make its true debut.
Last edited by Stratofreighter on 03 Apr 2012, 19:50, edited 9 times in total.
November 2024 update at FokkerNews.nl....
Jaap
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1202
Joined: 15 Feb 2004, 10:45
Subscriber Scramble: Jaap
Contact:

Re: PICCIES: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by Jaap »

Last weekend well informed Internet sources rebranded the thing from J-20 into J-14.
The first taxi trials were on 22 December.
Subscription dept.
Editor Scramble Magazine
User avatar
Stratofreighter
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 22196
Joined: 25 Jan 2006, 08:02
Location: Netherlands

Re: PICCIES: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by Stratofreighter »

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest
China's Stealth Striker

Posted by Bill Sweetman at 12/27/2010 4:57 AM CST

Hot from the fence-line is what looks like the best image yet of China's Chengdu stealth fighter, identified so far as J-20.
Image
Remarkable indeed - and at the rate we're going there will be a three-dimensional animated cutaway of this beast by 2.30 Tuesday afternoon, so we can safely stick to what we can see here without having to speculate too far. (Note: this photo appeared on the China Defense Forum. All I've done to it is rotate it and adjust contrast and brightness.)

The impression here is of a big, long aircraft, 70+ feet from nose to tail, which would make sense for a number of reasons. Rob Hewson at Jane's has reported that Russia has supplied 32,000-pound thrust 117S engines for the J-20, which would be adequate for an aircraft in the 80,000 pound class - with perhaps lower supercruise performance and agility than an F-22, but with larger weapon bays and more fuel.

But ask yourself: why would China need or want a short-range stealth aircraft? Any targets with defenses that call for that capability are a long way from the mainland. Also, the bigger that the aircraft is, the more likely it is that it is a bomber as much as, if not more than, a fighter.

The canard is clearly visible and at this point I'm seeing a "lambda" wing planform, seen on some earlier artist's concept out of China, with a single straight leading edge and a kinked trailing edge. It first appeared on McDonnell Douglas JAST studies in the early 1990s:
Image
The wing shape was also flight tested on the X-36 unmanned demonstrator - and the overall "sit" of the Chinese aircraft makes an interesting comparison to this shot:
Image




So much for this morning - but as the "what" starts to take shape, it gives us context to start thinking about "when" and "why".

Update: The 117S comes with 3D vectoring and the engines appear widely enough spaced for that to work. This might mean that the V-tails could be locked out in normal cruising flight. Also, a couple more photos:
Image

Image
And even more more piccies:

Image


Image
November 2024 update at FokkerNews.nl....
Jaap
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1202
Joined: 15 Feb 2004, 10:45
Subscriber Scramble: Jaap
Contact:

Re: PICCIES: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by Jaap »

Stratofreighter wrote:http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest
China's Stealth Striker

Posted by Bill Sweetman at 12/27/2010 4:57 AM CST

So much for this morning - but as the "what" starts to take shape, it gives us context to start thinking about "when" and "why".
This morning the nose wheel already left the ground during another high speed run, so first flight could be near.

Given the reported 'serial' 2001 I now think it should be called J-20.

Some more pictures found on internet: :drinking:
Image

Jaap
Subscription dept.
Editor Scramble Magazine
User avatar
RogierV
Scramble Die-Hard
Scramble Die-Hard
Posts: 683
Joined: 07 Sep 2002, 11:55
Location: Delluf
Contact:

Re: MORE piccies: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by RogierV »

@Jaap: Nice pictures, but keep in mind to use different angles as these are a bit boring. Nevertheless a pity I missed the fifth-gen fighter meet spottersday! ;-)
User avatar
P.Terlouw
Scramble Die-Hard
Scramble Die-Hard
Posts: 943
Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 11:22
Subscriber Scramble: P.Terlouw
Location: Soesterberg
Contact:

Re: Yet MORE piccies: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by P.Terlouw »

slowly more pics are coming up the Chinese websites

Image
Jaap
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1202
Joined: 15 Feb 2004, 10:45
Subscriber Scramble: Jaap
Contact:

Re: Yet MORE piccies: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by Jaap »

And with this family picture one can safely assume it is all happening at homebase CAC: Chengdu-Huangtianba : (30°42'18"N 103°57'22"E)

Image

(My guess is from left to right: F-7MG, J10SH, J10AH(3*), J20)

Jaap
Subscription dept.
Editor Scramble Magazine
User avatar
topgun1984
Scramble Addict
Scramble Addict
Posts: 1229
Joined: 08 Mar 2007, 06:45
Type of spotter: A non cursing 4RTY F4RTY
Location: Gorinchem
Contact:

Re: Yet MORE piccies: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by topgun1984 »

Found these on the I-net and did a little bit of adjusting... makes them look mucht better :)

Image

Image

Image
YOU DON'T NEED WHITE LENSES IF YOU GOT A WHITE CAMERA.
Image
User avatar
evhest
Scramble Addict
Scramble Addict
Posts: 1660
Joined: 04 Jul 2004, 16:37

Re: Yet MORE piccies: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by evhest »

If it looks good it usually flies good, they say. I'm wondering if the opposite is also true...
Answers will be questioned.....
User avatar
Flyboy
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 2720
Joined: 14 Sep 2006, 09:39
Type of spotter: F4
Subscriber Scramble: Flyboy
Location: Hillywood
Contact:

Re: Yet MORE piccies: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by Flyboy »

Those exhaust pipes are realy big. I wonder how stealth is is in IR signature?
User avatar
Melchior Timmers
Scramble Addict
Scramble Addict
Posts: 1589
Joined: 13 May 2006, 18:06
Subscriber Scramble: Melchior Timmers
Location: Soest
Contact:

Re: Yet MORE piccies: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by Melchior Timmers »

Looking at the size of it, I can't imagine its a fighter, more a bomber. (Again) an ugly design in my opinion which looks remarkable much like the Su-37 Berkut but with the wings swept backwards.

Cheers,
Melchior Timmers
Editor Scramble Magazine
-----------------------------------------
PO Box 75545
1118 ZN Schiphol
The Netherlands
E-mail: melchior.timmers@scramble.nl
Internet: http://www.scramble.nl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
Jetzone 2000
Scramble Junior
Scramble Junior
Posts: 235
Joined: 24 May 2005, 16:27

Re: Yet MORE piccies: China's first Stealth fighter ?

Post by Jetzone 2000 »

More on pics also on : http://www.alert5.com/
Kind Regards,

Andries

http://www.jetzone2000.com
User avatar
Stratofreighter
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 22196
Joined: 25 Jan 2006, 08:02
Location: Netherlands

Re: VIDEO and piccies: China's first Stealth fighter...

Post by Stratofreighter »

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlkUCNlxA2w[/youtube]

Yes I know, a rather vague clip, but nevertheless...
The first J20 4th/5th Generation Stealth Fighter taxiing cell phone video high-speed!
November 2024 update at FokkerNews.nl....
User avatar
Stratofreighter
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 22196
Joined: 25 Jan 2006, 08:02
Location: Netherlands

Re: BETTER video and piccies: China's first Stealth fighter...

Post by Stratofreighter »

November 2024 update at FokkerNews.nl....
User avatar
Gerard
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 3941
Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 20:00
Subscriber Scramble: Jawohl
Location: 9.9NM NE of Büdingen AAF (closed)

Re: BETTER video and piccies: China's first Stealth fighter...

Post by Gerard »

Now that's the perfect replacement for the KLu F-16s and most probably less costly than the F-35 :D
.          |
          /O\
\_______[|(.)|]_______/
  o   ++   O   ++   o
Post Reply

Return to “Military Aviation News”