Official: Romania is to purchase twelve F-16s from Portugal.

[Stratofreighter]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... tugal.html

Romania Buys 12 F-16 Aircraft from Portugal

(Source: Focus News Agency; published Sept. 25, 2012)

BUCHAREST --- Romania will pay Portugal USD 600 million in a period of five years for 12 F-16 jet fighter aircraft, the Macedonian news website Libertas reported.

The news was confirmed by Defense Minister Corneliu Dobriţoiu. He said that Romania would pay EUR 70 million in the first tranche next year.

The aircraft will be presented after the pilots’ training is over in 2016. (ends)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corneliu Dobritoiu: Romania Observes EU Directives on F-16 Aircraft Acquisition

(Source: ACT Romanian News Agency; published Sept. 24, 2012)

Romania observes to the letter all European Union (EU) directives concerning the acquisition of F-16 multirole aircrafts from Portugal, National Defence Minister Corneliu Dobritoiu said on Saturday, while attending 'Aeronautic Show 2012.'

“We shall come up with a decision draft within CSAT. We are competing, as you know, with the Bulgarians.

Referring to the acquisition,
I assure you, all Romania's citizens and the EU partners included,
that Romania observes absolutely all EU directives for this acquisition, to the letter,” Corneliu Dobritoiu said, referring to the multirole aircraft acquisition from Portugal.

The Minister also said that although some feared that a tender should be organized, as the European Commission demanded, the aircraft would be bought within an intergovernmental agreement concerning the military technique in use, which eliminated the need for organizing a tender.

Corneliu Dobritoiu told Agerpres in August that Romania could buy F-16 from Portugal,
the aircraft being in “a very good” condition, according to the experts that evaluated their technical state.

The Minister pointed out that the multirole programme “is more than acceptable,” having the possibility of negotiating the final amount for the aircraft acquisition with the Portuguese partner.

[PilotoRico]

Well, if this is true.... then another "Royal New Zealand AF look a like" is born..... with 12 F-16s going to Romania, the FAP will be left with only a mere 20 F-16s (that means that one Esquadra will disband soon or later).

Very sad to see the Portuguese AF shrinking and shrinking......

PilotoRico

[wamovements]

Portugal got 41 F-16s delivered, of which two are written off (and four are (temp?) stored).
Where do you get the 20 number from Rico?

[michel N]

Well, 41 minus 12 to Romania, and 2 write-offs, 4 stored, leaves the FAP with only 23 F-16's. There will always be some F-16's in maintenance, so Rico might even be optimistic with 20 F-16s...

[wamovements]

Maybe the four stored (surplus) are sold as well

[PilotoRico]

Portugal got 41 F-16s delivered, of which two are written off (and four are (temp?) stored).
Where do you get the 20 number from Rico?

Well, as michael N already revealed, not all F-16s are to be MLU upgraded and those are stored for spares etc. That means that 20+ would remain.... but indeed, some will be under maintenance etc, so at any time around 18 will be available for operational duties. In my opinion that will be too few for two Esquadra's. I am pretty sure that one of the units will be disbanded soon or later

PilotoRico

[Paul van der Linden]

Portugal got 41 F-16s delivered, of which two are written off (and four are (temp?) stored).
Where do you get the 20 number from Rico?

Well, as michael N already revealed, not all F-16s are to be MLU upgraded and those are stored for spares etc. That means that 20+ would remain.... but indeed, some will be under maintenance etc, so at any time around 18 will be available for operational duties. In my opinion that will be too few for two Esquadra's. I am pretty sure that one of the units will be disbanded soon or later

PilotoRico

Well, actually they only had 20 F-16s in the first 1,5 decade or so? I don't think they had more than 30 aircraft in service at any point as the former USAF aircraft were overhauled very very slowly or am I wrong?

It is much worse that in Romania 12 F-16s are due to replace three MiG-21 bases which is surely not going to happen... The closure of Bacau was expected but also either Campia Turzii or Borcea as well is much worse. 12 F-16s in return for the remaining 30-40 Lancers (out of a total of 110) is really bad..

Gtz, Paul

[Erik_7Xi]

Well, if this is true.... then another "Royal New Zealand AF look a like" is born..... with 12 F-16s going to Romania, the FAP will be left with only a mere 20 F-16s (that means that one Esquadra will disband soon or later).

Very sad to see the Portuguese AF shrinking and shrinking......

PilotoRico

At least you still have F-16s - the RNZAF was supposed to retire the A-4K in favor of the embargoed Pakistani F-16s, but at the last moment the government decided to disband the entire Combat Wing all together, leaving the RNZAF without any fighter aircraft.

[PilotoRico]

Well, actually they only had 20 F-16s in the first 1,5 decade or so? I don't think they had more than 30 aircraft in service at any point as the former USAF aircraft were overhauled very very slowly or am I wrong?

It is much worse that in Romania 12 F-16s are due to replace three MiG-21 bases which is surely not going to happen... The closure of Bacau was expected but also either Campia Turzii or Borcea as well is much worse. 12 F-16s in return for the remaining 30-40 Lancers (out of a total of 110) is really bad..

Gtz, Paul

You are right Paul, but don't forget that in those years the A-7 was still flying with one Esquadra till 1999 and also there was one full Esquadra 301 equiped with Alpha Jets. So much more then they will have now. The fact is that the Alpha Jet (only 8 remain) are believed to be withdrawn in next 4 years... with no replacement yet (despite several rumours that Correan T-50's might be used in future, nothing official).

After all..... we all lose. A pitty that so many Lancers will be replaced by "only" twelve secondhand F-16s. I am afraid that this is just the beginning in Europe

Cheers

[CBR]

A pitty that so many Lancers will be replaced by "only" twelve secondhand F-16s.

I am not sure this is all. Their initial requirement was much higher : 40+.

Twelve does not seem enough for such a large country and its international contributions & ambitions.

So perhaps more will folow.

[p_shadow]

Rico, of course FAP is shrinking! It has been shrinking for decades! And do you know since when exactly it started shrinking?? Obviously.... since the very exact moment it stopped growing!!lol

Now seriously, FAP is shrinking since the end of the colonial wars. Before that, "necessities of war" made FAP a big (but unfortunately warped) force!

I'd like to point some things that people should know before caring for the numbers of flying-metal machines standing on wheels on air base ramps and shelters!!

We are a 10-million people country, but we only have 30 (+-) individuals flying F-16s! Opinions apart: it was not easy to reach this number of men, it's not easy to maintain it, and i don't believe it would grow much more in the short/medium term. So.... why did we want 40 jets on the flightline anyway?!? (semi-answer's a few lines below).

You all have an excuse for not understanding what i mean, or for not getting where do i want to get.... unless you're Portuguese or have lived here in the last 2 decades! Here, there's a huge distance between "who gives orders" and "who works". And because so, the reality isn't much the same for those 2 groups of people. (Ok, this is a good entry point for discussing current economical crisis, but we'll spare that for somewhere else!). For short.... everybody knew that 40 F-16 was too much, even before they were ordered. But they were ordered anyway! (know what i mean now? ) I could come with hundreds of examples like this one just within the Portuguese military topic. I won't. Let's get back to the most appreciated numbers!

1) 40 aircraft contracted for MLU (19 Peace Atlantis I + 21 PA II)
2) 10 MLUed aircraft (originally) intended for sale
3) One aircraft crashed during test flight (F-16BM s/n 15140)
4) Today, 33 of those 39 MLUs are flying (remaining six will so too by mid-2013)
5) 12 aircraft are now (supposedly) intended for sale

Conclusions: 27 F-16s are enough for those 30 guys to schedule the 24/24h QRA between them and to have 6 jets on NATO's Immediate Reaction Force. But what i care the most is that those guys continue to have enough training, enough flying hours, attend to exercises, that each one of them has their own JHMCS, that they have 12 Litening AT pods on an 27-aircraft fleet, can use LGBs, JDAMs, LJDAMs and AMRAAM C-5s effectively, win trophies at Tiger Meets and continue to be the best at their job!

"Abraços" to all (specially you Rico, am waiting for your visit here! Before FAP has no aircraft for us to take shots at!!

[p_shadow]

On the Romanian side..... i think is a good choice opting for F-16 MLUs, probably the best choice (and i'm talking about the platform only, not the deal or it's values).

Of course, even the quality's advantage over quantity has its limits. Twelve MLUs can't replace 100 LanceRs but i believe these 12 jets are a good opening for follow on orders. In the near-term many more second-hand MLUs will become available or even C/Ds and by that time RoAF will have some years of experience in operating 4-gen fighters and future acquisitions could be more calculated and would result in a much smoother entry to service (i don't think they'll eventualy buy more than 30/40 aircraft though...)

With MLUs they'll be operating a very usefull platform untill 2020/2025. On the other hand, they (like us here in PT) have a little more time to straighten finances and get ready for "real fighter purchase" decisions by that timeframe... Or not.


Abraços

[PilotoRico]

Rico, of course FAP is shrinking! It has been shrinking for decades! And do you know since when exactly it started shrinking?? Obviously.... since the very exact moment it stopped growing!!lol

Now seriously, FAP is shrinking since the end of the colonial wars. Before that, "necessities of war" made FAP a big (but unfortunately warped) force!

"Abraços" to all (specially you Rico, am waiting for your visit here! Before FAP has no aircraft for us to take shots at!!

Thanks Shadow for your reply. I agree with you on some parts, but will that discused later when I am in person with you in Portugal . Sure I will arive on time before the FAP has been reduced too much.


Big hug from your Dutch friend.

PilotoRico (Gina91)

[Stratofreighter]

At http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/not ... ael-01499/
slightly more has come to light.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/not ... ael-01499/
gives a quite detailed timeline actually, plus more interesting background information. It is not behind a "pay-wall" (yet)...

Sept 24 2012: Portugal. Romania apparently outbids Bulgaria for 12 PoAF F-16s, offering EUR 600 million over 5 years for the jets (EUR 125 million) and associated training and maintenance (EUR 475 million).

The planes will arrive in 2016, by which time Romania’s pilots will also be fully trained.

The fighters are described as “multirole,” but this is a bit of a stretch for the F-16 Block 15 OCUs.

They can use AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles, but their previous-generation AN/APG-66 radars have limited ground capabilities, and the fighters’ main precision strike weapon is the short-range AGM-65 Maverick missile.

On the other hand, the price for 12 was pretty good. Other offers had been tabled by Saab and by the USAF for 24 fighters at about double the cost, but as the weighting of this deal shows,
shrinking the fighters by half does not halve the total cost.

Aug 23 2012: Portugal? actmedia reports that the Romanian defense ministry has sent experts to inspect some of Portugal’s 45 F-16s, which were found to be in excellent condition. The PoAF is likely to be selling some of 201 Squadron’s Block 15OCU models, not 301 Squadron’s 20 upgraded F-16MLUs.

On paper, that sounds an attractive solution for both parties, given Portugal’s dire fiscal position, and the fact the Dutch option is apparently no longer available.

[p_shadow]

Again, a report full of mistakes. FAP doesn't fly OCUs anymore, so it can't sell them!! They were MLUed and the last one (F-16B 15120) should be back to the air soon.


Abraços