Verandering * CIV - MIL * Change

[Key]

Zoals tijdens de Afghanistan-top weer bleek is over meerdere forums gespreide info van één vliegveld vaak niet handig. Om dit tegen te gaan, maar toch de wens van velen om splitsing van mil- en civ-info te respecteren, willen we een aantal forums gaan combineren, maar de aparte civ- en mil-topics daarbinnen behouden. Dit moet de komende nachten en dagen zijn beslag gaan krijgen.

As was evident again during the Afghanistan summit, info concerning one airfield divided over multiple forums is often impractical. To reduce the disadvantages, but still respect many users' wish to keep mil and civ info separated, we plan to combine a number of forums but retain separate civ and mil topics therein. This should be put into effect the coming nights and days.

Erik

[Key]

Step one has been done: Netherlands & Belgium reshuffled. Obviously, several forms of adaptation will be necessary for a while...

Stap één is een feit: Nederland & België herordend. Uiteraard zal wat aanpassing in verschillende vormen de komende tijd even nodig zijn...

Erik

[Key]

Aanvullende informatie
De bedoeling is om, nu alle topics van een veld in één forum staan, civ en mil altijd in aparte topics te zetten. Op die manier kan eenieder zo direct mogelijk de info benaderen die gezocht wordt. Het kopiëren van bv. EHAM naar EHAM - MIL only behoort dus ook tot het verleden.

Oude situatie
Per veld vaak meerdere forums checken / RSS gebruiken / View new posts gebruiken.
Logs enz. opsplitsen in aparte civ en mil topics in verschillende forums.

Nieuwe situatie
Per veld maar één forum checken / RSS gebruiken / View new posts gebruiken.
Logs enz. opsplitsen in aparte civ en mil topics.

Dank aan iedereen die zich al meteen heeft aangepast aan de nieuwe situatie!

Additional information
Now that all topics on an airfield are together in one forum, the idea is to put mil and civ in separate topics, always. This enables everyone to approach the wanted info in the most direct manner. Therefore, copying from e.g. EHAM to EHAM - MIL only is now a thing of the past.

Old situation
Per airfield, often check multiple forums / use RSS / use View new posts.
Split logs etc. into separate mil and civ topics in multiple forums.

New situation
Per airfield, check a single forum / use RSS / use View new posts.
Split logs etc. into separate mil and civ topics.

Thanks to everyone who adapted to the new situation right away!

[Key]

Door de "fantastische" nieuwe opzet van het EHAM forum heb ik de Orange formatie helaas gemist, en daar baal ik enorm van !!.....

Verklaar je nader...

Gisteren: kijken in EHAM MIL only, waar de info in kon staan als kopie van EHAM (civ) en kijken in EHAM (civ), of RSS o.i.d. gebruiken. Topicnaam: EHAM 02-04-2009 of EHAM MIL 02-04-2009.
Vandaag: ontdekken dat forum EHAM MIL only niet meer bestaat, evt. meteen kijken in EHAM (civ) of Announcement lezen, of RSS o.i.d. gebruiken. Topicnaam in alle gevallen: EHAM MIL 02-04-2009.

Als je uit kunt leggen wat er zo fout is aan de nieuwe indeling ben ik daar serieus in geïnteresseerd, doe maar via PM.

Erik

[Key]

Next phase carried out this night:

Added Luxembourg to Spotting Belgium.
Combined Spotting Europe CIV & MIL into one forum.
Created Spotting Germany as it turned out we have plenty input for this.

Volgende fase deze nacht uitgevoerd:

Luxemburg toegevoegd aan Spotting Belgium.
Spotting Europe MIL & CIV gecombineerd tot één forum.
Spotting Germany gecreëerd aangezien we daar zat materiaal voor blijken te hebben.


Erik

[Key]

Obviously, the methods mentioned in this old topic have changed.
From now on, we do maintain separate topics for mil and civ on any airfield, but we keep those topics in the same forum!

Edited for - hopefully - more clarity...

[Slijfie]

Door de "fantastische" nieuwe opzet van het EHAM forum heb ik de Orange formatie helaas gemist, en daar baal ik enorm van !!.....

I dó understand his point. AMS is the nearest 'airbase' for me, so I don't want to miss anything military visiting.
Now I have to check Schiphol everytime I visit the Scramble forum - 99.9% of the time to find out that someone only added info on something civilian. Wast of time, again and again. Okay, it's only a few clicks extra, but still a waste.
Sure, if you do both military and civil, this is a great solution. For 'mil only' readers it's not.

Rob

[SquAdmin]

I'm also not very happy with this change. It worked just fine and I actually don't understand what went wrong with the Afghanistan top (except that a moderator decided to put the topic in the Praethuis section). I agree with Slijfie, the mil spotters are bound to miss something with this new approach.

[marcel32us]

Just use the "active threads" button and scan for the MIL header. The recent topics will be on top, and the ones that won't are too old anyway.

I'm totaly in favour of this new order!!! Well done guys!! No more searching in various topics for info on one field at one date.

Marcel

[Key]

@ Rob and Patrick and others,

Before, you had to check the forum EHAM MIL only for active topics, if you work via the normal forum structure. When using RSS or View new posts or likewise, you had to look for EHAM MIL topics.
Now, you have to check EHAM and look for EHAM MIL topics, or use RSS/View new posts etc. exactly like you did before.
Let me stress once again we want all civ and mil moves separated by topic from now on, but all those topics in just one forum per airfield.

Thinking it over for the umptieth time, I assume you mean you have to click the EHAM forum much more often than you had to click the EHAM MIL only forum when you see something has been added. Then, you find out nothing MIL has been added. That is true if you work that way, but let me mention View new posts again: you can see, with one click, if there is something to read for you.

Anyway, this is asked from you so that we all do not have to check two forums for one airfield if we do not want to miss info.
The latter turned out to be necessary because our 'copy to EHAM/EHRD mil' policy did not to work: many mil moves of both airports were posted only in one forum, resulting in missed info, mostly for mil spotters! The Afghanistan summit example of this was the departure of the mil bizzers from Schiphol East: they were all mentioned (as they departed) in EHAM, but not in EHAM MIL only (which actually wasn't even mandatory either, so that system just didn't work).

Additionally, for an airfield like Groningen (example, I know it's not next door for you) you will be notified of the rare mil visitor by the appearance of an EHGG MIL topic. In the past, you would probably miss it, so we think there is an improvement here.
There were even more disadvantages, but I will not discuss them at this moment.

Finally, the SIS is still in force too. I hope this helps, do let me know if I miss your point.

Erik

[SquAdmin]

Erik,

personally I never use the Active Topics function because I think the list is simply too long. I always browse the forum and now I have to click "Spotting Netherlands" > "Amsterdam-Schiphol" to know if there are active mil topics in there. Then, if I want to know if there are mil things happening in Belgium I have to go to "Spotting Belgium" and see what's active overthere.

In the past I could just click "Spotting Netherlands/Belgium MIL" and immediately see what was going in two countries at once. It may sound silly to emphasize the few extra mouse clicks, but it does require some extra effort from the 100% mil spotters.

[Key]

what went wrong with the Afghanistan top (except that a moderator decided to put the topic in the Praethuis section)

Click!

personally I never use the Active Topics function because I think the list is simply too long.

That is a matter of opinion, of course... I respect yours.

it does require some extra effort from the 100% mil spotters.

It does. Like I explained above, what you get in return is more reliable info, plus the many not 100% mil spotters benefit from this. That totalled to our decision to take this step. We realise we cannot keep everyone totally happy (this was discussed literally among the mods). We do strive for the best option for the whole.

Erik

[Slijfie]

View new posts...
This might be a good solution. I will have to login each time (automatically), which I don't usually do.
I'll give it a try.

[Key]

Thanks Rob. Like said above: impossible to keep everyone 100% happy, unfortunately. Keep comments that we can use coming, please.

Erik

[Key]

Yesterday's/tonight's step has been the division of many existing complete airfield topics into civ and mil ones. I think we are reasonably on track now.

Gisteren en vannacht een flink aantal bestaande complete vliegveld-topics verdeeld in mil- en civ-exemplaren. Ik denk dat we nu redelijk op het goede spoor zitten.

Erik