Split off --- EHAM 21-05-2009 Phototopic

[nustyR]

Good comment to which I fully agree!

Indeed

Only one small note; even with good ( or the best ) equipement you 're going to test it to the limit and beyond, it's the photographer's choice to stop at the right time

[SpotterNL]

it's the photographer's choice to stop at the right time

The only question is, what is the right time? Where are the limits?

For example, you are crossing the limits, and not once or twice. Don't get me wrong, most of your shots are great in composition and subject and I wish I took them. However, you work with long distances, heavy cropping, low light and to be honest, it shows. Your shots are quite often pixellated/grainy or in general low quality due to atmospheric effects.

In my photography I am constantly trying to get interesting shots with high quality, and that last part doesn't make me a real fan of your work. To go even further, I think you cross the limits of your gear. However, all the ooooh's and aaaaah's on this forum show that others don't agree with my opinion. So when do you cross the limit?

[Key]

There are several sides to the issue, I think.

Like most others, I admire the type of composition Nusty makes. The shots that I will 'ooh and aah' for are the ones that combine a great composition with good technical quality. Indeed, Nusty regularly chooses to show us images that lack the latter to a certain extent, in order to share the moment he captured. That is a choice, and I personally would show less, but they can be an inspiration nonetheless. There is something in it for everyone, but not all of it is for me, so to say.
Having said that, there is a lot in it 'for me' and so is there in the work of several others here!

The strongest collections are those where very strict selection is applied. But then again, positive feedback encourages to show more, and showing more often means being less selective.

Technical limits can probably be roughly identified, in terms of sharpness (and oversharpening!), tonal and colour settings, grain and issues like level horizons and dust spots. Subject and composition are a completely different story, where it all depends on your objectives.


Erik

[nustyR]

it's the photographer's choice to stop at the right time

The only question is, what is the right time? Where are the limits?

For example, you are crossing the limits, and not once or twice. Don't get me wrong, most of your shots are great in composition and subject and I wish I took them. However, you work with long distances, heavy cropping, low light and to be honest, it shows. Your shots are quite often pixellated/grainy or in general low quality due to atmospheric effects.

In my photography I am constantly trying to get interesting shots with high quality, and that last part doesn't make me a real fan of your work. To go even further, I think you cross the limits of your gear. However, all the ooooh's and aaaaah's on this forum show that others don't agree with my opinion. So when do you cross the limit?

Found your quote on another forum http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/lis ... /1240538/9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[message=29891776,noline]Spotter schreef op dinsdag 08 april 2008 @ 23:47[/message]:
[...]

Scramble neem ik aan? Ik hang er zelf ook rond (en ken ook een hoop van je foto's van daar) maar dat is zoals je zelf ook al een beetje aangeeft echt een spottersforum. Ik heb dat zelf ook veel gemerkt, als de kist er maar opstaat is het al gauw gaaf. Het gaat daar niet zo zeer om de foto's maar echt om het onderwerp, en als het er tof op staat is het mooi meegenomen. Niet dat daar iets mis mee is maar het is een andere insteek dan bijvoorbeeld dit forum. Persoonlijk vind ik het niveau van het commentaar op scramble (vanuit een fotografisch oogpunt) af en toe om te huilen. Er is weinig initiatief om de kwaliteiten naar een hoger niveau te tillen. Een website als Fencecheck.com is daar al een stuk beter in.

Het hangt er dus een beetje vanaf wat je wilt. Gaat het je om het onderwerp of om de foto (en daarbij kan best het onderwerp belangrijk zijn)? Als ik zo je foto's zie en je verhalen lees zit jij op het 2e punt. Daarbij is opbouwende kritiek mijns inziens een van de beste dingen die je kan overkomen, en spottersfora schieten daarin helaas tekort.

Let's make something clear;

I use scramble and atcbox for all the daily and regular shots ( noise and grain included because of interestingness subject ).
I post the quality shots at Tweakers and DPZ. At DPZ they were so kind to give me my own topic http://dutchphotozone.com/viewtopic.php ... 11&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMO constructive criticism roughly consists out of 2 parts;
-1 the part somebody tells you what you're doing wrong.
-2 the part somebody tells you how to improve things.
In your "constructive criticism" I still miss part 2

The strongest collections are those where very strict selection is applied. But then again, positive feedback encourages to show more, and showing more often means being less selective.

Good point

[Key]

Scramble neem ik aan? (...)
Het gaat daar niet zo zeer om de foto's maar echt om het onderwerp, (...)
Niet dat daar iets mis mee is maar het is een andere insteek dan bijvoorbeeld dit forum.

The Scramble Message Board is a spotters' forum. The personal preference of part of the audience (and crew ) for photographically stronger images does not imply all images have to be 'good photographs'. All that we demand, is for posters to make a selection of their shots, not just empty the whole can here.
Obviously, the better images will be more appreciated by many, and there is some exchange about how to improve photos, or how the best ones were made. These are welcome developments.

I use scramble and atcbox for all the daily and regular shots ( noise and grain included because of interestingness subject ).

IMO constructive criticism roughly consists out of 2 parts;
-1 the part somebody tells you what you're doing wrong.
-2 the part somebody tells you how to improve things.

Clear! Re. 2: In your specific case, I personally feel no need to. You know very well what you are doing, I just see it when you make decisions like described at the top of this quote.

Keep 'm coming, all!


Erik

[SpotterNL]

As an example of my work, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jradier" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; would be a good start

IMO constructive criticism roughly consists out of 2 parts;
-1 the part somebody tells you what you're doing wrong.
-2 the part somebody tells you how to improve things.
In your "constructive criticism" I still miss part 2

Like Key said, I don't feel the need to tell you number 2. I could tell you only to shoot at days with perfect weather conditions, in good light etc, but that is something you won't do. I could tell you to be more selective with your pics, but there obviously is a 'market' for them here. Your shots are the way they are because of choices YOU make, and that is what make them unique. Your shots are your shots because you made/make the choice to crop heavily and shoot in imperfect weather conditions.

In my photography I make different choices. I focus more on quality than you do and with that, I am far more selective of what I show. With these criteria in mind I think your shots lack quality. On the other hand, I do recognise that I'm not half the creative shooter you are. That said, I think your photos would benefit if you would work on the technical quality while keeping the creative side 'as is' for the time being. That however is entirely my opinion.

I might sound harsh, but I am not a nustyR 'fanboy' as a lot of people here are. Does that mean your shots are not good? As the reactions on this and other forums show that is not the case. It is merely a difference of opinion which I am glad is there. If everyone would like the same thing this world would become a mess. For example, if everyone would like the girl I'm after my chances with her drop quite a bit .

On a different note however, I'm glad we're having this discussion. I think you can only learn from criticism on your work.