Animation result crash Boeing 737-800 TK1951Turkish Airlines

[jovi198]

The results of the crash of Turkish Airlines TK1951 on 25 februari 2009 at Amsterdam Airport (Schiphol) are relvealed at an pressconfrence in The Hagau at 6 mei 2010. An nice animation of how the crash of what happend en what went go wrong with the crash of the Boeing 737-800.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1EHF2Taxq0[/youtube]

[r.e.hendriks]

Interesting!!!

Thanks for sharig the link!

Rgds, Rob.

[Thermal]

Nice animation, no matter how you put it (instrument errors etc) these guys seriously screwed up. Responding that late to a stickshaker with such a 'nose up' pitch attitude and not going for TOGA power is asking for problems.

Seems they don't teach the function of the stickshaker in Turkey ?!?!?

Pitty Turkish Airlines is not accepting the outcome of the investigation. Boeing certainly also has a fault/responsibility here but accepting the conclusions would have made TA a safer airline. Pitty.

[frank kramer]

More on the Turkish point of view here:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... overy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just to pre-empt on possible comments: I'm no expert on this (not even an amateur) as I am in a different line of work altogether; so, I have no clue as to the correctness of either or both claims; I merely pass the message.

[flying_kiwi]

Nice animation, no matter how you put it (instrument errors etc) these guys seriously screwed up. Responding that late to a stickshaker with such a 'nose up' pitch attitude and not going for TOGA power is asking for problems.

Seems they don't teach the function of the stickshaker in Turkey ?!?!?

Read the report?
Yes they made a mistake, but who's to say you or I wouldn't have done the same if we'd been in that situation?

When the stickshaker activated, the nose was pushed down, and the throttles were advanced (although not completely). However, at this point there was a transfer of control from the first officer (who was the PF), to the captain (who had been the PM). The problem here was that because the autothrottle had not been disconnected, the throttles retarded themselves again, and obviously in the heat of the moment, the captain didn't realise it and the throttles weren't advanced to TOGA for several seconds.

Pitty Turkish Airlines is not accepting the outcome of the investigation. Boeing certainly also has a fault/responsibility here but accepting the conclusions would have made TA a safer airline. Pitty.

Again, I would suggest reading the report before making accusations like this!
As I understand it, TK only has an issue with the fact that the report did not emphasise that disconnecting the autothrottle was not part of the Boeing recommended procedures for the approach to stall/response to stickshaker. They don't seem to have a problem with the gist of the report, its just that they feel that additional attention could have been paid to that as a contributing factor.

I agree that the crew erred, but I can also understand where TK are coming from with their reaction to the report even if I don't completely agree with them.

Condeming is easy if you haven't been in this situation, which is why it is so important keep an open mind, and which is why it raises my bloodpressure to see some of the things people write.

Yorden

[aviodromefriend]

As I understand it, TK only has an issue with the fact that the report did not emphasise that disconnecting the autothrottle was not part of the Boeing recommended procedures for the approach to stall/response to stickshaker. They don't seem to have a problem with the gist of the report, its just that they feel that additional attention could have been paid to that as a contributing factor.

No, the TK public reaction was that the crash was a radio-altimeter issue only (pointing to the first report about a week post-crash). They totally rejected any criticism to the crew, which PvV clearly did at the presentation of the report, telling what the (in TK's and their country's eyes heroic) crew could/should have done to make it to the runway.

which is why it is so important keep an open mind, and which is why it raises my bloodpressure to see some of the things people write.

Well, I only saw the presentation on TV and read the Turkish Airlines reaction, it gives me an impression the final report has raised the bloodpressure in Turkey, preventing an open mind toward the report....

[flying_kiwi]

Well, I only saw the presentation on TV and read the Turkish Airlines reaction, it gives me an impression the final report has raised the bloodpressure in Turkey, preventing an open mind toward the report....

Agreed. I think that that's something the inhabitants of most Mediterranean countries have, that initial reactions tend to be quite emotional.

No, the TK public reaction was that the crash was a radio-altimeter issue only (pointing to the first report about a week post-crash). They totally rejected any criticism to the crew, which PvV clearly did at the presentation of the report, telling what the (in TK's and their country's eyes heroic) crew could/should have done to make it to the runway.

I'd suggest reading the report, specifically from page 123 to 134. This contains the comments that TK and the Turkish DGCA made to the draft version of the final report. Most of their comments appear to have been accepted by the OVV (PvV??), with the exception of a couple, the most relavant of which (in my eyes), is:

Section 5.10.2, Paragraph 1, Page 54.
“It is explicable, considering the general nature of the training and the time that has passed, that
the recovery procedure was not undertaken correctly.”
The crew actions were in accordance with Boeing’s Stall Recovery Procedure but the procedure was
inadequate since it did not include autothrottle disengagement. Therefore, this sentence must be
removed.

which the OVV didn't accept.

The way I see it, most of what they said initially was for the public in Turkey (defending the honour of the nation and crew), but behind the scenes they were very much open to what was being presented in the report.

Yorden