"Dutch AH-64s refused to rescue fatally ambushed SAS forces"

Stratofreighter · Post by **Stratofreighter** » 22 Oct 2010, 06:56

This news feature and the claims are rather controversial to say the least...

But mr. Maylor certainly succeeded in getting "free publicity" for his new book...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 5942059838

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/nati ... 5941958522

Dutch attack helicopter refused to assist ambushed troops IAN McPHEDRAN

From: The Advertiser October 22, 2010 12:01AM

AUSTRALIAN special forces troops were left for dead by two Dutch Apache attack helicopters equipped with missiles and cannons during a fatal ambush in Afghanistan, a former soldier has revealed.

When the smoke cleared, one American was dead and seven SAS soldiers and two sappers lay wounded.

A combined Australian, American and Afghan patrol was being ambushed by up to 150 enemy fighters in September 2008 when the two Dutch choppers escorted a Chinook transport helicopter into a nearby American forward operating base.

As the troops endured withering enemy mortar, small arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire from a rolling enemy ambush near the village of Khaz Oruzgan, they thought they had witnessed salvation in the form of the Apaches' lethal Hellfire laser guided missiles and 30mm chain guns.

The patrol's joint terminal air controller (JTAC), the person responsible for co-ordinating air strikes, got on the radio, "We're in an absolute doozy of a s ... fight. We need your assistance as we're taking casualties," he told the Dutch pilots.

The JTAC, known only by his initials of SG, provided target indicators but the choppers refused to drop under their "safe" height of 5000m.

Below that level, aircraft are vulnerable to small arms fire, but Apaches are armour-plated and designed to operate under heavy fire at low altitudes.

In a book entitled SAS Sniper, to be released next week, former SAS soldier and ex-Royal Marine Rob Maylor, who sustained serious shrapnel wounds in the battle, reveals details of the ambush and the lack of help from the Dutch.

"They wouldn't open up on the Taliban for fear they might draw some fire themselves," he said.

As the patrol was being pounded, another SAS soldier marked targets for the choppers using a heavy machine gun to kick up dust clouds close to enemy positions.

"They still wouldn't engage. SG had had enough so he told them: `If you're not going to engage then you might as well f ... off' and they did. Cheers boys."

Eventually two F/A-18 Hornet jet fighters from a US aircraft carrier provided support.

The explosive revelations add weight to the views of soldiers on the front line that they need more firepower.

However, Defence Minister Stephen Smith repeated the mantra of war boss Lieutenant General Mark Evans that such claims were "inaccurate and ill-informed".

59 comments on this story

Stratofreighter · Post by **Stratofreighter** » 22 Oct 2010, 08:20

And our national tabloid:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/7994 ... buitenland ...

aviodromefriend · Post by **aviodromefriend** » 22 Oct 2010, 11:16

If that JTAC only told the crew what is in that article, I suspect the Rules of Engagement were banning any support to that patrol (leave alone they had to abandon the Chinook they obviously had to escort).

Ah well, if those Aussies and Yanks were able to hit the enemy's position close, that is not enough to use the weapons from that Apaches. It even still could have exploded closer to that patrol itself than to the enemy, as long as the guys on the ground don't light the enemy positions with laser, but instead of that using some gunshots ending up close to it.

(Of course, the dust they created by firing their machine gun also might have paid tribute to the unability to identify the target).

All in all, I think some Joe-with-the-baseballcap might think "WOW what a heroes on the ground and foxtrotuniformcharliekilo that helicopter", if you try to have followed what was going on during the whole four years the Dutch spent in Afghanistan, I would say those guys on the ground did almost everything wrong they could have done in such a situation, and now even one of them tries to make some money out of it.

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » 22 Oct 2010, 11:27

aviodromefriend wrote: Ah well, if those Aussies and Yanks were able to hit the enemy's position close, that is not enough to use the weapons from that Apaches. It even still could have exploded closer to that patrol itself than to the enemy, as long as the guys on the ground don't light the enemy positions with laser, but instead of that using some gunshots ending up close to it.

(Of course, the dust they created by firing their machine gun also might have paid tribute to the unability to identify the target).

They called in carrier air support and these Hornets dropped some 'firework' in the area to solve the problem.

evhest · Post by **evhest** » 22 Oct 2010, 11:42

aviodromefriend wrote: I would say those guys on the ground did almost everything wrong they could have done in such a situation, and now even one of them tries to make some money out of it.

Does the term 'armchair soldier' mean anything to you?

aviodromefriend · Post by **aviodromefriend** » 29 Oct 2010, 18:59

Luchtmacht.nl:

Generaal-majoor John Cantwell, commandant van het Australisch Operationeel Hoofdkwartier in het Midden-Oosten, heeft afgelopen woensdag een bezoek gebracht aan het Nederlandse Apache-detachement op Tarin Kowt. Namens de Australische krijgsmacht bedankte hij het huidige en alle voorgaande detachementen voor de bewezen diensten.

Aanleiding voor dit bezoek was onder meer de zeer plotselinge verlenging waarmee de Nederlandse helikoptereenheid werd geconfronteerd. Australië is een van de bondgenoten die veel belang hecht aan het voortzetten van de Nederlandse gevechtshelikopterinzet. De verlenging is mede tot stand gekomen op basis van een verzoek van de Australische regering.

Daarnaast was de recente negatieve berichtgeving in de Australische en Nederlandse media een belangrijke bezoekreden. Oorzaak van de media-aandacht was de bewering van een Australische militair dat zijn eenheid, die onder vuur lag, in de steek was gelaten door Apache-vliegers.

Dankbaar voor Nederlandse Apache-inzet

Cantwell benadrukte dat niemand van de Australische krijgsmacht zich ook maar enigszins herkende in het geschetste beeld. “Meer dan eens hebben Australische militairen hun leven te danken aan de inzet van Nederlandse Apaches”, aldus de generaal-majoor.

Als blijvende blijk van waardering overhandigde hij een plaquette aan de commandant van het Apache-detachement, luitenant-kolonel Giliam Bresser."

Short translation (as long as it is on-topic): A high ranked Australian military person has thanked the Dutch Apache detachment in Afganistan for all help the choppers have given the Aussies, now and in the past.

The visit was because of the extra time the Apaches have stayed in Afghanistan, and because of the bad recent publicity this thread is about.

The man stressed that no-one in the Australian Armed Forces could recognise this story at all. According to him, Aussies thank their lives to the Dutch Apaches on more than one occasion.

Scramble Messageboard