Libyan aircraft movements (was: LIBYAN MIRAGE F1s AT MALTA)

[Thermal]

I wished they were Su24s but not bad to see them either.

Maybe you can ring the Libian Air Force and ask them tomorrow to send some Su-24's over after they have finished bombing unarmed civilians. :s
Bit inappropriate indeed.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[pjotrtje]

This news proves that fighter jets, and artillery apparenty, are being used against civilians. So shockingly disgusting.

Of course, that's true. And this being true, somehow we all (you too?) welcome a Lancaster (responsible for 50% of all civilians killed in Dresden) at an airshow, revel the sight of an airworthy Bf109G, and so on. It is not the plane that kills (especially these two Mirage F1s as they escaped taking part in the Libyan 'killing fields' at the hands of their very heroic pilots) it is the powers controlling these planes that do! (This being said, you are fully entitled to your opinion and I do not underestimate nor downplay the tragedy taking place in Libya.)

[Roel van Gestel]

pjotrtje, exactly. We shouldn't be to moralistic since we all like to spot militairy aircraft. We love MiG kills and stories on Phantoms dropping napalm in Vietnam. Or the jet that almost bombed the 'luckiest guy in Iraq'. Securitate Puma's shooting at unarmed people in Timisoara... We wished we could have seen and photographed them. They had blood on their hands/ wings/ rotors too.
Let's just say that a Libyan jet is a solid catch these days.

[Malcolm Bezzina]

Quoting:

The pilots told the Maltese authorities that they left from a base near Tripoli and flew to Malta after being ordered to bomb protesters who had occupied the Libyan second city of Benghazi. Instead they escaped and came to Malta for Political Asylum!
malc

[hornise]

Some high quality photos from the landing of the two Mirages - http://www.airplane-pictures.net/news.php?p=929

[zapacitu]

Securitate Puma's shooting at unarmed people in Timisoara...

That didn't happen, Roel. Securitatea did not have any Pumas or armed aircraft / helicopters, and no aircraft opened fire during the repression before Ceausescu left (16-21 Dec).

In the confusion and chaos that followed after 22 december until 25-26, a number of helicopters were shot at and a few downed by air defences and Army units. Airforce Pumas also opened fire on ground targets at least twice. For more info read this article:
http://s188567700.online.de/CMS/index.p ... &Itemid=47

Sorry for the off topic, but I felt I have to clarify this.

[Fogg]

And this being true, somehow we all (you too?) welcome a Lancaster (responsible for 50% of all civilians killed in Dresden) at an airshow, revel the sight of an airworthy Bf109G, and so on.

Very true, I'm interested in these death machines too. There's certainly no need for political correctness here either. I was just suprised that nobody in this thread uttered a single word of (genuinely felt) horror about this before discussing the tail numbers involved, that's all. I'll shut up now.

[Thermal]

pjotrtje, exactly. We shouldn't be to moralistic since we all like to spot militairy aircraft.

Nothing wrong with military aircraft but to be pre occupied with serials and photographs while people are getting bombed at that very minute is inapropriate.

Dresden was almost 70 years ago. So your comparison holds no ground

Back to topic

Italy's air bases are on maximum alert and is moving air force and navy helicopters to southern Italy.

[ehusmann]

Apparantly two pilots ejected from their Su-22 and let it crash to avoid having to shoot civilians: http://www.hbvl.be/nieuws/buitenland/ai ... ashen.aspx

Erwin

[Joost Michiels]

Some high quality photos from the landing of the two Mirages - http://www.airplane-pictures.net/news.php?p=929

Not to be in disrespect or anything but ehm:

That 's one lucky bastard with a day he 'll always remember! Cracking shots...

Makes one wonder howmany Mirage 's they have flying these days as these are exactly both the single-seaters that could be seen at Mitiga during Lavex 2009 (508 on static display with it 's paint hardly dry, 502 still on o/h in a hangar).
1st 2-seater back flying was doing the show, 2nd example was also still on o/h.
Could very well be they never got much further than these four a/c.

Regards,

Joost

[Glidepath]

can anybody tell us what short fat (weapon?) pods are carried on the outer stations?

I note that they came in without external fuel tanks. Can Mirages cover that distance without or were the (empty) tanks dropped in the Med?

[Lightning]

To me it seems that the rocket pods are Matra type 155, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNEB

The range of a Mirage F-1 on just internal fuel tanks is according to diffirent sources up to 850 km, just on internal fuel. The distance between Libya and Malta is around half of that.

[Wildpicture]

Makes one wonder howmany Mirage 's they have flying these days as these are exactly both the single-seaters that could be seen at Mitiga during Lavex 2009 (508 on static display with it 's paint hardly dry, 502 still on o/h in a hangar). 1st 2-seater back flying was doing the show, 2nd example was also still on o/h.
Could very well be they never got much further than these four a/c.

What surprised me very much was the immaculate state these F1's seem to be in. I know they can be repainted to look fresh. But these seem to be brand new. Including the landing gear etc (parts not so much "touched" by paintjobs). Certainly not what you would expect after all the comments on the bad state of maintenance most jets would be in.

[frank kramer]

The rockets are SNEB 68mm, the rocket pod is the LRF1. The Matra 155 pod is much smaller.

[Glidepath]

To me it seems that the rocket pods are Matra type 155, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNEB

The range of a Mirage F-1 on just internal fuel tanks is according to diffirent sources up to 850 km, just on internal fuel. The distance between Libya and Malta is around half of that.

thanks.
-perhaps take for range into account, time over Libya, mocking an attack, dodging, low level flying, hi-lo-lo- profile, reserve for losing time in holding pattern malta.
They had, someway, enough fuel, as they did not need to drop (if at all possible) these two LOADED ! ROCKET pods.

slightly off topic mode on Deserters....hero's?
They will be seen as defectors and deserters by the current Libyian government and military. They have gone 'a-wall'. That's good for a military court and a (long) sentence or even death. Not just in Libya. But these chaps are called hero's and heroic. That is a bit overdone perhaps. Were the Iraqi aircrew seen as heros when the fled their country and flew straight into the hands of a former sworn enemy (Iran) and what happened to them...
and
Remember Dutchman Jan 'Poncke' Princen. He did not wanted to shoot freedom seeking populus too. Yet, he was declared something like deserter, even a traitor, an enemy of the state. He managed to hold on to his life and his dignity. His ongoing choices in life even let to a number or international awards. But afaik there is no statue for him, no street has been called after him anywhere in his 'Fatherland'. more: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poncke_Princen slightly off topic mode off

If anything, these LAAF-pilots / desert-deserters have opted for the wise thing. They stay alive (for now) and they deny FTTB further use of these 2 F1s.
Wonder what is more to follow (in any direction.. .)

EDIT: JUDGING BY THE PICS: THERE WAS LIKELY SOMETHING ON THE INNER STATIONS AT ANY POINT IN TIME DURING THIS FLIGHT.