Lynx + crew captured in Libya - Comments

[KIER]

It sounds slightly naive to me that you are going to try to rescue people by slow flying helicopter in an area where you know government controlled militias patrol the streets.

For your knowledge ; the Lynx helicopter is after more than 25 years, still the fastest helicopter in the world.


Kier

[Polecat]

If you don't know anything about the situation, and you don't, than please don't judge like that.

Hear hear!!

Regards,
Stefan

I'm sorry to say so, but without pointing fingers or speculating on causes (which is indeed impossible at this stage, totally useless but not forbidden) I really feel that drawing the conclusion that ''something went wrong'' is quite justified...

Apart from thaty, I think it has been a while since we last had aircrew down during a "live/combat" operation in hostile territory due to enemy action??

[Stefan]

If you don't know anything about the situation, and you don't, than please don't judge like that.

Hear hear!!

Regards,
Stefan

I'm sorry to say so, but without pointing fingers or speculating on causes (which is indeed impossible at this stage, totally useless but not forbidden) I really feel that drawing the conclusion that ''something went wrong'' is quite justified...

Drawing a factual conclusion is no judgement. On the other hand; stating the obvious is not adding much either...

Regards,
Stefan

[Wildpicture]

If you don't know anything about the situation, and you don't, than please don't judge like that.

Hear hear!!

Indeed. Some rather stupid and insensitive comments were made here which are certainly not based on knowledge of facts. My thoughts go out to the brave crew of the Lynx. Hope they are treated well and may return home very soon!

[ehusmann]

Apart from thaty, I think it has been a while since we last had aircrew down during a "live/combat" operation in hostile territory due to enemy action??

I can remember some choppers in Afghanistan and also an F-16. The F-16 was not due to enemy action though (as far as I know), but some of the choppers were I think.
However, I don´t think the crew was taken captive in any of those actions.

Erwin

[Roel van Gestel]

I doubt the situation was seen as a 'walk through the park' by the Dutch, so I guess they were prepared for a swift to-the-point action.
Yet, landing in a Gvt controlled region with a helicopter I can even hear from here and with apparently no back-up with real weapons... I guess the situation needs further investigation (and that will happen). Until then, Holland needs to apologise for the intrusion, which is absolutely not-done in the international and political arena.
We all know 'they' (Germans, Britts) do it too, but when you're caught... Than you're in deep international sh*t.

[aviodromefriend]

but some of the choppers were I think.

No, the write off Chinooks in Afghanistan were due to hard or bad landings, damaging beyond repair. After that it were the Dutch forces themselves that blew them up.

For your knowledge ; the Lynx helicopter is after more than 25 years, still the fastest helicopter in the world.

Wrong, that record has been broken last year (by a S-92 IIRC).

Maybe a lesson learned fot the DoD that whitout a proper csar chopper and backup (fighters or gunship and special forces) a resue in a hostile country is nearly impossable.
If you decide to take a 3 crewed lynx for such a task you can expect trouble.

As far as information is given by the MoD at this point, it was a time-critical situation to get the people out. So looking at a Lynx onboard of a frigate that is sailing not so far away from the Libyan shore is not such a stupid thing. Where should all that support be drawn from? We don't have F-16s in Italy anymore dealing with the Balcan conflict!

don't think nowadays anyone would consider a two-for-three swap successful, or even any mission where men have to be left behind...

Part of joining the military is that you accept you can get in such a situation, contrary to the civilian people that were supposed to be rescued. If you (as being Lynx-crew, not a poster at Scramble) don't like it, you should have joined a civil operator (there are some at basically the same airfield as where the Lynx has its home).

Unbelievable, the Brits successfully get hundreds of people out without the Lybians knowing it.
The Dutch have to pick up 2 (!!) people and f*ck up.

So far the Germans and Britons have been lucky with their transport missions in Lybia.

Lucky? I call it 'better prepared'

The British have prepared, that is for sure. They had time to inform their people by infiltrating Special Forces. From what we know in this case there wasn't any time to prepare here, due to the at once occuring situation, that appeared to be time critical.

[Mickey312]

All the best to these brave men and their families at home. Imagine what they are going through. Yes, something went terribly wrong, yes we might all have our thoughts and feelings about what happened and yes, they may not be favorable to whoever was in command and took ill-fated decisions leading to this incident, but out of respect to the captured men and their families, we could also choose to keep them to ourselves.

We are not helping anyone in putting the blame or calling leadership stupid and aircraft obsolete. At least our armed forces didn't sit around twiddling our thumbs, after successfully sending-in the KDC10 and C-130.

Mickey

[SquAdmin]

We all know 'they' (Germans, Britts) do it too, but when you're caught... Than you're in deep international sh*t.

Fully agree. We've presented Ghadaffi (or whatever he is called) a valuable negotiation asset. Can't imagine NATO will dare to impose a no-flying zone now...

[nilsko]

And what if we had this CSAR/fighter cover support. What did we plan to do with it ? Shoot back? That would mean a direct provocation of a nation we're not at war with..

[Wildpicture]

And what if we had this CSAR/fighter cover support. What did we plan to do with it ? Shoot back? That would mean a direct provocation of a nation we're not at war with..

And, unfortunately, it would also seriously endanger the lives of all civilians still in Libya waiting to get out.
From a strictly military point of view, there may have been better options/tactics. From a political point of view, the military usually can't deploy their assets of choice.

[Glidepath]

If you don't know anything about the situation, and you don't, than please don't judge like that.

Hear hear!!

Regards,
Stefan

..............................................Apart from thaty, I think it has been a while since we last had aircrew down during a "live/combat" operation in hostile territory due to enemy action??

however difficult it may be to use the right words on the fast internet, but let us refine that question please.
Hostile yes to a certain degree, but at this point in time, not any Lybian is a Dutch enemy, not even an opponent.
no Combat either. It is 'just' an evacuation action gone sour. That's 'all' in dead earnest.

........Hear hear!! Stefan

,Yeah, that what the defenders must have said to one another:
"HEAR HEAR, That helicopter noise we hear in the air, not a Mi-8, so that's not ours......let's go get him.
Oi, what's that, a funny roundel with red white and blue and orange......
Strangers in our desert, without proper Visa".

Let's hope for the best.

[notar]

[quote="aviodromefriend"]Wrong, that record has been broken last year (by a S-92 IIRC).[/quote]

Wrong:

The Sikorsky X2 Technology Demonstrator Achieves 250-Knot Speed Milestone on Wednesday, Sept. 15, 2010.

[jp 74]

jp 74 schreef:
Maybe a lesson learned fot the DoD that whitout a proper csar chopper and backup (fighters or gunship and special forces) a resue in a hostile country is nearly impossable.
If you decide to take a 3 crewed lynx for such a task you can expect trouble.
As far as information is given by the MoD at this point, it was a time-critical situation to get the people out. So looking at a Lynx onboard of a frigate that is sailing not so far away from the Libyan shore is not such a stupid thing. Where should all that support be drawn from? We don't have F-16s in Italy anymore dealing with the Balcan conflict!

Exactly, why swing into action if you don't have the proper hardware.
Time critical or not the crew and civilians are put into harms way without proper support.

[dvdzee]

This thing is totally ridiculous !

-no proper intelligence
-no backup (plan)
-just 1 chopper with at least 3 / probably 5 men
-invading air space with a military aircraft WITHOUT permission from the Lybian government

I think there asses were super lucky that they were not shot down !

What would we do if for example a Lybian chopper would land on the Dam Square or Vondelpark ? Welcome them with open arms ? I don't think so... Come one everybody let's be serious...

And according to international (war) laws the Lybian's did NOTHING wrong. Our 3 soldiers now fall under Geneva Convention which means actually they are prisoners of war. Do you know that without PERMISSION/OK from our Prime Minister the operation would never be possible ?
Someone screwed up BIG TIME !

let's hope they don't harm our soldiers and hope and PRAY they will return home SAFE and unharmed !