BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

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BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by Canberra TT.18 »

Hi

Klu choose F-35
2 squadrons 1 for Volkel and for 1 Leeuwarden!?

http://www.nu.nl/politiek/3500156/defen ... f-jsf.html
'Defensie kiest definitief voor JSF'
Minister Hennis van Defensie kiest definitief voor de aankoop van JSF-toestellen. Dat staat in de toekomstvisie op de krijgsmacht van de minister.

Foto: ANP Dat meldt RTL Nieuws. De kosten van het project bedragen ruim vier miljard euro.

Hoeveel JSF-toestellen worden gekocht, is afhankelijk van de prijs per toestel. Het kabinet wil niet meer uitgeven dan het gereserveerde bedrag van ruim vier miljard euro.

Daar worden twee squadrons van gekocht; een in Volkel, een in Leeuwarden. Een squadron is een eenheid van de luchtmacht met een aantal vliegtuigen.


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Richard from Rotterdam
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by Richard from Rotterdam »

4 Billion euros for two squadrons? About 30 JSFs then. My guess will be only at Volkel. To be continued obviously.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by Flyboy »

First the vision for the national defense must be approved, and based upon that new material can be purchased. This will undoubtly take more time than only one meeting on a friday... But we will see...

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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by Coati »

Based upon noise zoning knowledge I surely think that both Leeuwarden and Volkel will be kept open.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by atla »

"...American taxpayers, the U.S. military services, and foreign purchasers — all of whom have been promised F-35 aircraft for as little as $85 million each — are in for a rude awakening.
When real F-35 purchase prices unfold in the future, they may be as much as they are today—averaging more than $200 million per aircraft..."

http://nation.time.com/2013/06/07/on-fi ... z2VaB8RkeP
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by Coati »

atla wrote:"...American taxpayers, the U.S. military services, and foreign purchasers — all of whom have been promised F-35 aircraft for as little as $85 million each — are in for a rude awakening.
When real F-35 purchase prices unfold in the future, they may be as much as they are today—averaging more than $200 million per aircraft..."

http://nation.time.com/2013/06/07/on-fi ... z2VaB8RkeP
Written by Winslow Wheeler, a complete anti-jsf fanatic. Nice source....not. Besides he is mixing flyaway costs with total procurement costs. Could WW explain why a dozen countries choose the JSF to purchase, and why other jets are hardly sold?

Complete rubbish story. I think the only rude awakening will be his when everything what happens is contradicting his claims of the last years.

Here some nice insights on Winslow Wheelers tactics (from F-16.net):

Long-time observers of POGO, Winslow Wheeler and other so-called ‘reformers’ will note that the ‘get gunned every time’ sound bite will be dropped fairly quickly and something else concerning the F-35 will be targeted as a ‘failure’, ‘mistake’ or ‘criminally negligent’ decision/design feature/performance characteristic, perhaps from the same report, or from one to come later. This is because POGO et al are acutely aware that an extended exchange or dialog with anyone who disagrees with them will expose the misdirection they (POGO et al) endeavor to sustain. POGO and Wheeler go for the sound bite to plant negativity into the public’s consciousness knowing that the general public’s attention span is short. By the time anyone dives deep into a POGO/Wheeler claim and cries “Hey! Wait a minute!” the public has moved on to other circuses. Such ‘Hit and Run’ tactics, along with their careful cultivation of media enablers, allow POGO/Wheeler relief from ever having their methods, biases and motives undergo serious public scrutiny. This is classic guerrilla warfare of the information domain.
Once the initial ‘buzz’ is past, if the ‘get gunned every time’ line is ever again referenced by POGO/Wheeler, it will be as only one item in a litany of similar perversions of reality in support of some general condemnation of the F-35 or as an introduction to the next misdirection issued by POGO/Wheeler.

http://www.elementsofpower.blogspot.com ... s-aft.html


From F-16.net:

Per the latest budget, the WSC (Weapons System Cost) for a FY2016 F-35A should be $128 million USD which is 95 Euro.

So if the 4 Billion is WSC, then they should be able to buy 42 of them. They get cheaper after 2016 (120 in 2017, 107 in 2018, etc)
So probably a few more than more then 30-35.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by Richard from Rotterdam »

Our minister of defence is now denying a decision has been made and calls the report by RTL as unfounded... Yeah right.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by atla »

See page 1-7 for the USAF JSF budget in 2014, which is 188 mjn dollars = 141 mjn euro's.

http://www.linkedin.com/redirect?url=ht ... cking_disc

In 2016 95 mjn euro's? A minus 45 mjn per year per plane from now? Sure...

According to minister Hillen in 2011 the JSF was 61 mjn euro's.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by Alpha Kilo One »

Apart from the budget, which I do not like at all...... the JSF will not meet mission requirements.
Whatever the cost.....
So skip the whole bloody thing.....

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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by Coati »

Alpha Kilo One wrote:the JSF will not meet mission requirements.
TNO has been evaluating all candidates twice on mission requirements and the JSF came out as best.

So I am very curious to your source and to the aircraft which will meet the "mission requirements".
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by Flyboy »

This discussion may end up like the other ones in this theater.... Given the static show in Volkel right now, the preference seems to be F-35 with RQ-9's. No doubt they will be purchased at the end as there still is no European Unification or Unified European Airfoce or even an common European foreign policy, so The Netherlands will stick to the chosen policy of 'luchtmobiel' , special forces (update of submarines as well) and the airpower to enable that. All to protect the economic power of the Kingdom. Lets wait end see...
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by PilotoRico »

Coati wrote: Per the latest budget, the WSC (Weapons System Cost) for a FY2016 F-35A should be $128 million USD which is 95 Euro.

So if the 4 Billion is WSC, then they should be able to buy 42 of them. They get cheaper after 2016 (120 in 2017, 107 in 2018, etc)
So probably a few more than more then 30-35.
Yeah right.... it seems you are a real JSF freak. The price of the aircraft is still not clear, it changed almost every 4 to 6 months, depending on delays and technical problem issues. The price you mentiones is still a "wild guess", nothing sure yet. I think that at the end, only 35 maximum will come to Holland, and that will also see the closure of one of the two air bases; Volkel or Leeuwarden. Face the fact that some F-35's will be based for training purposes in USA, then 'only' 12 to 14 will be based on each base!!! .... that's totally waste of expensive money.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by Melchior Timmers »

PilotoRico wrote:
The price you mentiones is still a "wild guess", nothing sure yet. I think that at the end, only 35 maximum will come to Holland, and that will also see the closure of one of the two air bases; Volkel or Leeuwarden. Face the fact that some F-35's will be based for training purposes in USA, then 'only' 12 to 14 will be based on each base!!! .... that's totally waste of expensive money.
Also the amount of 35 is a wild guess I would say...:-)
But only 12-14 for each squadron would be enough for KLU operations nowadays when looking at missions recently performed abroad.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by jp 74 »

Melchior Timmers wrote:
PilotoRico wrote:
The price you mentiones is still a "wild guess", nothing sure yet. I think that at the end, only 35 maximum will come to Holland, and that will also see the closure of one of the two air bases; Volkel or Leeuwarden. Face the fact that some F-35's will be based for training purposes in USA, then 'only' 12 to 14 will be based on each base!!! .... that's totally waste of expensive money.
Also the amount of 35 is a wild guess I would say...:-)
But only 12-14 for each squadron would be enough for KLU operations nowadays when looking at missions recently performed abroad.
Don't forget that about 10 of them will be under maintanance 2 QRA 2 reserve and a couple on tdy about 6 in the usa for training and a couple will crash.
So not much flying in the Netherlands!
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Re: BREAKING NEWS:Dutch choose JSF

Post by aviodromefriend »

Richard from Rotterdam wrote:Our minister of defence is now denying a decision has been made and calls the report by RTL as unfounded... Yeah right.
I also heard some journalists talking about the decision to procure the F-35 would be taken last Friday, during the weekly cabinetmeeting. IF this would have been passed by then, I would have expected that she would have mentioned this in her speech at Volkel (actually, when mr Blaat announced a speech from the minister to be broadcasted live over the screens, I thought that this would come, instead of the nothing saying blahblah that came out)
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