Small trip the Netherlands - Off topic

[Buccaneer S.2B]

Hi all,

What a nonsense about removing pictures !
This ain't the cold war, it's 2014 lads........
If the Air Force doesn't appreciate pictures, just screw them !

regards,
Remco

[mirage 69]

What a nonsense about removing pictures !
This ain't the cold war, it's 2014 lads........
If the Air Force doesn't appreciate pictures, just screw them !

I think you're right Remco but P4 is a great place to take pictures and if the airforce doesn't want the pictures on the internet we have to respect that.
You don't want them to close P4 for spotters...

Grtz Rene

[Hurricane]

Hi all,

What a nonsense about removing pictures !
This ain't the cold war, it's 2014 lads........
If the Air Force doesn't appreciate pictures, just screw them !

regards,
Remco

Ouch, that is kind of insulting to write this down that hard. Its just a policy that people are obliged to follow. Blame the system, not the players!

The first line does make sense and I would like to state clearly (once more) that Scramble has no part in the local agreement between EWAS and Eindhoven airbase. Photographing military sites/installations is prohibited by Dutch Law so if there are photos shown that tickle people, they now their ways to reach our moderator team. Please keep local and general items separated and don't try to enforce local agreements in a general environment!

[Paveway]

This ain't the cold war, it's 2014 lads........

Now in 2014 we have different kind of 'enemies'...

[Nilson]

Could be, but to show a picture without infrastructure! If we follow these absurd Klu rules what will be next?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[patrick dirksen]

These "absurd KLu rules", that are not heavily enforced here by the way, are still very very valid in many other countries, don't forget that! We are very lucky here in The Netherlands with the way our hobby is allowed/tolerated!

[Hurricane]

Could be, but to show a picture without infrastructure! If we follow these absurd Klu rules what will be next?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Technically runway/taxiways shown in photos are already an violation of this rule (as Eindhoven still is a military base and runways/taxitracks are part of the infrastructure) so judge on your own about enforcing these "regulations".

[Paveway]

Typically the people who 'think' these rules are nonsense are spoiling the joy of fellow-spotters who do obey the rules.
Not obeying the (current) rules/regulation could mean they might be tightened.
As Patrick already said, we are very lucky that our hobby is more or less tolerated, let's not spoil this...

Now, let's get back to topic!

[Nilson]

Typically the people who 'think' these rules are nonsense are spoiling the joy of fellow-spotters who do obey the rules.
Not obeying the (current) rules/regulation could mean they might be tightened.
As Patrick already said, we are very lucky that our hobby is more or less tolerated, let's not spoil this...

Now, let's get back to topic!

I "think";-) it is nonsense, but do not even take pictures, so do not ever assume !

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Starman]

These "absurd KLu rules", that are not heavily enforced here by the way, are still very very valid in many other countries, don't forget that! We are very lucky here in The Netherlands with the way our hobby is allowed/tolerated!

Wow, speechless!

[PH-BRAD]

Hi all,

What a nonsense about removing pictures !
This ain't the cold war, it's 2014 lads........
If the Air Force doesn't appreciate pictures, just screw them !

regards,
Remco

Ouch, that is kind of insulting to write this down that hard. Its just a policy that people are obliged to follow. Blame the system, not the players!

The first line does make sense and I would like to state clearly (once more) that Scramble has no part in the local agreement between EWAS and Eindhoven airbase. Photographing military sites/installations is prohibited by Dutch Law so if there are photos shown that tickle people, they now their ways to reach our moderator team. Please keep local and general items separated and don't try to enforce local agreements in a general environment!

It is allowed to take pictures of military installations in the Netherlands taken from the public road (openbare weg)

[roberto]

As far as i know the rule between the KLu and EWAS for photographing from P4 was not to publish any aircraft on the platform when there was also military personel visible or when they were loading/offloading equipment.
So a clean aircraft on the platform with no one around it should be fine as this is no different then photographing the same aircraft on the runway or taxiway.

[Thijs]

I wonder if there would be a discussion if some great pictures from an exotic location will be published over here, which are clearly not in line with (local) regulations.

Thijs

[Nilson]

I wonder if there would be a discussion if some great pictures from an exotic location will be published over here, which are clearly not in line with (local) regulations.

Thijs

Exact!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Einstein]

Hi all,

What a nonsense about removing pictures !
This ain't the cold war, it's 2014 lads........
If the Air Force doesn't appreciate pictures, just screw them !

regards,
Remco

Ouch, that is kind of insulting to write this down that hard. Its just a policy that people are obliged to follow. Blame the system, not the players!

The first line does make sense and I would like to state clearly (once more) that Scramble has no part in the local agreement between EWAS and Eindhoven airbase. Photographing military sites/installations is prohibited by Dutch Law so if there are photos shown that tickle people, they now their ways to reach our moderator team. Please keep local and general items separated and don't try to enforce local agreements in a general environment!

It is allowed to take pictures of military installations in the Netherlands taken from the public road (openbare weg)

No PH-BRAD, it is not allowed.
Article 430 Wetboek van Strafrecht (Penal Code) states the following: Hij die zonder verlof van het bevoegd gezag een opneming doet, een tekening of beschrijving maakt van enig militair werk, of die openbaar maakt, wordt gestraft met hechtenis van ten hoogste twee maanden of geldboete van de derde categorie. In English: He who makes a sketch or description of any military object, or makes that public, without permission of the autorities, will be punished either by being taken into custody for a maximum of two months or a fine of the third category. The aforementioned sketch or description includes taking photographs.

What a military object is, has been defined by the Hoge Raad (Supreme Court): military locations and fortifications. Military vehicles, ships, airplanes and weapons do not qualify as military objects, according to the Supreme Court. So therefore it is allowed to take pictures of a military airplane in the sky, or a tank on the road for example. However, once such a vehicle is on a military object, such as an air base, the article DOES apply, because you can't photograph the vehicle without automatically taking a picture of the surrounding area. The Supreme Court has ruled that the photography of military objects from the public road qualifies as an offense under article 430 Sr.

Now, the funny thing is that there also used to be a prohibition on aerial photography in the Netherlands in general. Without permission from the authorities it was not allowed to take aerial photographs of anything. Not even your own house. That ban has been lifted in 2013. And because in these days it is possible to create (and sell) satellite imagery of everything, including military objects, the Ministry of Defense has given a general permission beforehand for taking aerial pictures of military objects. So that is no longer punishable by law.

So: aerial photography = good, pictures from the same object on the ground = bad.

Whether or not the rules are enforced is a different matter of course.