MH17 from AMS to KUL down in Ukraine

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hammarö
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Re: An-26 shut down near Torez, Ukraine now

Post by hammarö »

Although is the localisation of the plane AND the air missile Torez area.
There are more separate Buks (SA-6) in area in different villages.

154 of the passengers were from Netherlands. Several passengers were spead 15 km on ground. Several sitting in their seats.

The Eastern Ukrainan air space is now closed by the European direction organization.

US intelligence declare now that they have followed the air missile (SAM) to the plane. May bee tracks of missile engine.

Newpapers sides.
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Re: An-26 shut down near Torez, Ukraine now

Post by hammarö »

Igor Strelkov, pro-Russian military officer and director of what is called the People's Republic of Donetsk, wrote the following on a Russian website:

"In the area around Torez so have only just one aircraft of type Antonov An-26 shot down and crashed near the mine. We have warned that they should not fly in our skies and now video confirmation of yet another downed bird. The bird fell outside the populated area, so there are no civilian casualties "

Although it was the Malaysian civil aircraft with 295 civilian passengers.
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Re: An-26 shut down near Torez, Ukraine now

Post by hammarö »

Netherlands morning paper today.
https://twitter.com/RaymondJanssen/stat ... 7071177729

Murder it says, no accident. 298 dead of these 154 is from Netherlands. 80 of the dead were children.
Many of dead were on way to a AIDS conference in Asia. Which means several high class AIDS resesearchers are dead.

Putins daughter is in Neterlands today (studying?). The info I read talk of protection.
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Re: MH17 from AMS to KUL down in Ukraine

Post by zerofive »

There are 290 innocent people killed x no reason and discuss a number . No comment

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Re: An-26 shut down near Torez, Ukraine now

Post by hammarö »

Ukraine claims to have intercepted radio traffic from the groups who shot down the aircraft. The data will probably become part of the investigation into the plane crash.

Call 1:

IB (command within the separatist forces, SvD's note): We have just shot down a plane. That was "miner's group. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).
VG (IB Coordinator): Pilots. Where are the pilots?

IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. Its tuxedo.

VG: How many minutes ago?

IB: About 30 minutes ago.



Call 2 (about 40 minutes later):

"Greek": Well, what do you have there?

"Major": These are Chernukhin people who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those Who Are cossacks Based in Chernukhino.

"Greek": Yes, Major.

"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first "200" (code word for dead person). We have found the first "200". A Civilian.

"Greek": Well, what do you have there?

"Major": In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.

'Greek': Are many people there?

"Major": Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).

"Greek": What kind of aircraft?

"Major": In this have not ascertained. I have not been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.

"Greek": Is there anything left of the weapon?

"Major": Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.

"Greek": Are there documents?

"Major": Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in (XXX, the name of the university removed by SvD).



Call 3:

Unknown: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It's a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this. They say on TV it's AN-26 transport plane, but they say it's written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine's territory?

NK (Cossack officers): That means They were carrying spies. They Should not Be f ... cking flying. There is a war going on.

http://www.svd.se/nyheter/utrikes/flygk ... d?sidan=21



UKRAINE ACCUSES RUSSIAN OFFICERS OVER MALAYSIAN AIRLINE,
(Reuters) - Ukraine's state security chief accused two Russian military intelligence officers of involvement with pro-Russian rebels in the downing of a Malaysian airliner on Thursday, releasing chilling testimony of what he called an "inhuman crime."
SBU chief Valentyn Nalivaychenko based his allegation on intercepted telephone conversations between the two officers and pro-Russian fighters, one of whom referred to seeing "a sea of women and children" in the wreckage of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.
"We will do everything for the Russian military who carried out this crime to be punished," Nalivaychenko told journalists, who were shown video and audio transcripts of the recordings.
"The terrorists will not go on dancing on corpses."
In a recording played to journalists of a conversation said to have taken place at 4.33 p.m. Kiev time (13:33 GMT), a rebel fighter going by the nom de guerre of 'Major' is heard telling another comrade called 'Grek' that a group of fighters had brought the airliner down.
"The plane broke up in the air, near the Petropavlovskaya mines. The first (casualty) has been found. It was a woman. A civilian," he says.
At 5.42 p.m. 'Major' acknowledges the plane was civilian:
"Hell. It's almost 100 percent certain that it's a civilian plane."
Asked if there were many people on board, he replies in the affirmative with a swear-word, adding: "The bits (of the plane) were falling down in the streets ... There were the bits of couches, chairs, bodies."
Asked if any weapons were found on board, 'Major' says: "No - Civilian things, medical things, towels, toilet paper."
He says ID documents of an Indonesian student had been found.
In another recording of an intercept, played to journalists, a Russian (military intelligence officer) called Igor Bezler is heard reporting on the downing to his superior in Russian military intelligence, Colonel Vasily Geranin.
"A plane has just been shot down. It was the 'Mine-laying' group ... They've gone to search and photograph the plane. It is smoking," Bezler tells Gernanin at 4.40 p.m.
Asked 'How long ago?' he replies: 'About 30 minutes ago.'
In a third conversation, a rebel fighter says: "It turned out to be a passenger plane. It fell in Hrabove area. There's a sea of women and children ..."
He adds: "But what was it (the Malaysian airlines flight) doing over Ukraine?"
The man he is talking to replies: "That means they've called up spies. No way to flights. This is war"
"Okay, understood," he replies.
"They discuss Russian saboteurs bringing down a passenger plane. They discuss the number of victims. We have fixed this conversation as taking place at 4.20. Now you know who carried out this inhuman crime against humanity," Nalivaychenko said.
"We will open up to all possible channels, the means of this crime being objectively investigated, and the officers of the Russian Federation who carried out this crime being punished."
(Editing by Andre Grenon)
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/07/1 ... NK20140717
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Re: MH17 from AMS to KUL down in Ukraine

Post by Wildpicture »

zerofive wrote:There are 290 innocent people killed x no reason and discuss a number . No comment

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Agree
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Re: An-26 shut down near Torez, Ukraine now

Post by hammarö »

Convoy of terrorists with Gadfly moving from Snizhne to the state border of Ukraine.
(The SAM:s moving out to Russia? remarks).

(Ukrainan words).

http://liveuamap.com/e/2014/17-of-july- ... 005&zoom=8
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Re: An-26 shut down near Torez, Ukraine now

Post by hammarö »

Pictures of transport of the SA-11 Buk in Ukraine on way to erection place.


twitter.com/djp3tros/status/490028904279994368
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Re: An-26 shut down near Torez, Ukraine now

Post by hammarö »

The Strategic Corporal.

The strategic corporal is the notion that leadership in complex, rapidly evolving mission environments devolves lower and lower down the chain of command to better exploit time-critical information into the decision making process, ultimately landing on the corporal, the lowest ranking non-commissioned officer, typically commanding a fire team of 4 individuals or a squad of 13 individuals (three fireteams plus NCO). In very rapidly evolving mission situations, obtaining mission instructions from remotely located command may result in mission failure, or in casualties to both force personnel and civilians. Conversely, misusing this kind of responsibility may result in personal liability for the team leader: a decision executed to respond to situational needs may result in later prosecution as the team leader's actions are reviewed by higher authorities.

The term "strategic corporal" was coined by General Charles C. Krulak in the title of an article in Marines Magazine about the "Three Block War," an increasingly important arena of military operations characterized by engagement with hostile, neutral and friendly forces, all at the same time, in a very geographically limited area, e.g., three blocks.

This concept requires forces to apply an appropriate type of response in a timely manner relative to the immediate context. Complex Rules of engagement are needed that will minimize collateral damage to civilians and infrastructure. However, training "strategic corporals" requires time and money above and beyond what is considered normal infantry or military police training.

The U.S. Army has used the Strategic Corporal term for their plan to equip ordinary squad leaders with advanced laser rangefinders to plot artillery fire.
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Re: MH17 from AMS to KUL down in Ukraine

Post by Shunn31 »

It's a tragedy... May people who was on board rest in peace !
I have seen so many pics and videos on internet and any are very horrible because we could see people killed. I don't know understand why we could to do that. Why civilian people are always and always targeted by terrorists ? 298 people who want go on holidays, seen her family or others and now more who are very sad and hungry.
We leave inside a very hard world where war is everywhere in these coutries and I don't understand why airlines could flies above them.

Hope the results of this crash or shut down will be make under peace in this difficult country. I'm very sad...
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Re: MH17 from AMS to KUL down in Ukraine

Post by Fishbed_9307 »

Wildpicture wrote:
zerofive wrote:There are 290 innocent people killed x no reason and discuss a number . No comment

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Agree
I also agree Zerofive but in this case the genuinity of this rather shocking Tweet was under discussion. It was not about the number itself.

Regards, Paul
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Re: MH17 from AMS to KUL down in Ukraine

Post by Stratofreighter »

Fishbed_9307 wrote:
Wildpicture wrote:
zerofive wrote:There are 290 innocent people killed x no reason and discuss a number . No comment

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Agree
I also agree Zerofive but in this case the genuinity of this rather shocking Tweet was under discussion. It was not about the number itself.

Regards, Paul
For what it is worth, the picture originated from
https://www.facebook.com/#!/cor.pan.7

Cor Pan was a nickname of this musician,
http://www.rtvnh.nl/nieuws/147437/Volen ... lucht+MH17
shows his real name.

Back to topic now I guess... :(
November 2024 update at FokkerNews.nl....
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Re: MH17 from AMS to KUL down in Ukraine

Post by hammarö »

Svenska Dagbladet's Anna-Lena Laurén have spoken with the independent Russian security analyst Pavel Felgenhauer in Moscow. He is convinced that separatists shot the plane down by mistake.

- The Separatists have no systematic control of the airspace, no control room where they follow all planes are in the air. They have a radar that they put on every now and then. They may have taken Malaysia Airlines plane on a Ukrainian transport aircraft, says Felgenhauer told SvD.

They have no own search radar. Only if they are connected with the Russian air defence can they get air picture info.

http://www.svd.se/nyheter/utrikes/flygk ... d?sidan=23
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Re: MH17 from AMS to KUL down in Ukraine

Post by polderbaan »

Hello,
just a question: how can this 777 with a cruise speed of 907 km/h after 4 hours of flight out of Amsterdam only have covered 2.400 km to Donetsk?
Everywhere I read take off 12.15 NL time, crashed 14.15 GMT= 16.15 NL time.
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Ab Gobets.
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Re: MH17 from AMS to KUL down in Ukraine

Post by ehusmann »

Contact was lost at 15.15 Dutch time, not 16.15, that makes it only three hours.

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