Volkel - Comments on participants

[Redskin]

Until just yet I had not read any messages regarding the Volkel Airshow. So I decided to check the website, and I was flabbergasted to see the display list.
SIX demo teams !!!!
What are they thinking ?? This is truely ridiculous !! I thought the Luchtmachtdagen were organized to show the people what the airforce does and what they work with. Now the show is like a bad american television show. Loads of "commercials" in between a few useful items.

So no pics from demoteams for you than (only single display teams) . Think for the general public that demo teams are well appreciated.

I remember that the Luchtmachtdagen were famous for their one-hour Airpower display with 24 F-16's, dozens of helicopters and all kinds of other flying- and ground action. I'll bet this highlight has been cut down tot a silly fly by of 4 F-16's and two helicopters (and a tanker at FL370), only to make room for more demoteams.
Pfff.....what a disappointment.

Cant find the link so fast but I've read that the airpower demo will take 45 minutes and 15 F-16's, a C-130 and KDC-10 will participate, as well as some heli's

edit: found the link (in dutch)
http://www.defensie.nl/luchtmacht/actue ... machtdagen

De demonstratie is opgezet als een zogenoemde airfield attack. Hieraan nemen deel:

15 F-16 jachtvliegtuigen van Vliegbasis Volkel;
een KDC-10 en C-130 Hercules van Vliegbasis Eindhoven;
diverse typen helikopters van het Defensie Helikopter Commando.

[geert]

Iwan Bogels wrote:

(and a tanker at FL370),

Under wich rock were you last year??

Last year a KDC-10 flew a few feet over the runway of Leeuwarden, so repeat it and you won't hear me complain!!

[DJdeRidder]

Tsjongejongejongejonge.....!

Until just yet I had not read any messages regarding the Volkel Airshow. So I decided to check the website, and I was flabbergasted to see the display list.

SIX demo teams !!!!


What are they thinking ?? This is truely ridiculous !! I thought the Luchtmachtdagen were organized to show the people what the airforce does and what they work with. Now the show is like a bad american television show. Loads of "commercials" in between a few useful items.

I remember that the Luchtmachtdagen were famous for their one-hour Airpower display with 24 F-16's, dozens of helicopters and all kinds of other flying- and ground action. I'll bet this highlight has been cut down tot a silly fly by of 4 F-16's and two helicopters (and a tanker at FL370), only to make room for more demoteams.

Pfff.....what a disappointment.

I don't agree with you on this. When was the last time you visited a KLu Open Day? I cannot remember ever seeing an Air Power Demo with 24 F-16s, must have been in the early 90s or even before. Display teams have been a major part of the programme for many years. I can understand you're disappointed but this is just what airshows are all about these days. IMHO this is even the best programme we had since 2006. Where else do we get such a mixed flying programme with a MiG-29, 2 F-16 solo displays, Typhoon, EF-18, Vulcan, RAF Chinook, Turkish Stars, 15 fighter jets attacking the airfield, NH90 and the Red Arrows nowadays? Many spotters don't like the display teams but without them we would probably only have a flying programme from 11:00 to 14:00! It's all we have..

Airshows are nothing compared to the shows we had in the 90's and early 00's (have you seen this year's Air Tatoo program? ) and I don't see any improvements for the future. With a programme like this year we should either be happy or stay at home.

I would applaud an increase in RNLAF 'displays' though, even small contributions like the KDC-10s low pass last year are very welcome.

[Coati]

When someone gives a, in the eyes of others, "negative" comment the most reactions I see are "stay home"

I think that it's like with elections....if you vote you may complain. Going to the airshow is for me as to vote.

So you can not stay away otherwise you lose your democratic right to give a opinion. (positive or negative)

O please.....I think it has more to do with persons who only care about their own very personal expectations and wishes and don't give a damn about what the majority wants. In my opinion that is the opposite of your democracy.

[Wildpicture]

Tsjongejongejongejonge.....!
Pfff.....what a disappointment.

I don't agree with you on this.

Although there was no smiley, I suppose the poster had a sense of humor intended.

I have been visiting Open Days since 77 or 78 (Gilze-Rijen with the first Red-White-Blue prototype of the F-16) and I do think the programs have improved enormously over the years. Back then we could only dream about demo teams. And an air power demo was regarded as MUCH too aggressive to be shown to the public. (Those days I was asked to travel by train in my civilian clothes instead of my uniform, since people didn't like uniforms.....) Though I still remember the base attack at "De Peel" by Starfighters coming in from all directions over the public at treetop level over the surrounding pine-trees. No pyrotechnics then however.

What I enjoy most personally is a combination of demo teams and military jets showing what they can do operationally. I am not really interested in old- or of civil-stuff. My young kids enjoy the really impressive stuff: demo teams and jets with high speeds and lots of noise and smoke. But such an Open Day has to appeal to the general public (tante Truus) so it will show a mix.

Apart from participants and weather, if the organization can match that of last year in Leeuwarden, it will be a perfect day!

[Stratofreighter]

Regarding the Air Power demo's....

Perhaps the Dutch helicopter units have been stretched a bit thin over the last couple of years

Also many air forces have cut back their solo demo displays, or they don't let them fly outside of their own country anymore because of budgetary reasons...

Apart from RIAT: also the RAF Waddington Flying Programme doesn't really set my heart on fire, except perhaps for the "home team"...

[DJMikey]

The only American-style-things (besides more than sufficient hamburgerjoints ) during the last 2 Open Dagen I can think of are the way the new commentators are presenting their stories and the (few) merry-go-rounds for the kids. To do something about this I've made the choice to put in earplugs and to make sure I will visit the stands that appeal more to me. Very simple solutions to prevent being annoyed because of things I can´t do anything about. Besides that, there are of course also many people who do like those things, so no actual complaint from me on this part.
I will always visit the Luchtmachtdagen. I've come to accept the last few years that the golden airshowyears of the 90's won't come back in the same way, due to all the reasons we all already know. The Open Dagen/Luchtmachtdagen aren't organized just to please spotters and aviationphotographers. Therefor I appreciate every single airplane that Bureau Luchtmachtdagen - BAD manages to get, granted military far more than civil. Although ... the last few years I've even come to appreciate the old warbirds. As an aviationenthousiast the planes are of course the main reason to visit, but not the only one. I think our Luchtmachtdagen always have a good atmosphere and are a good way to meet old friends again, have a few laughs, being active as a boardmember for my association, have a few beers ... to summon up: to simply have a good and relaxed time in general.

Maybe this way can be a way for some of you too?

[jb5]

Ow boy ....
Please be happy BOD has managed to get this one! Can't say more about it then happy to see one again!

For your information: BOD (Bureau Opendagen) has not much to do with inviting particpants, it's BAD (Bureau Air Diplay - Air Display Office). Beside that, the name BOD does not exist anymore, the name had been changed into Bureau Luchtmachtdagen.

Have fun

DJMikey see above

[DJMikey]

Hmm, that wasn't the point of my message, But thanks anyway. Missed your previous post jb5. Actualy should´ve known that change of name.

[Jaap]

SIX demo teams !!!!

What are they thinking ?? This is truely ridiculous !! I thought the Luchtmachtdagen were organized to show the people what the airforce does and what they work with. Now the show is like a bad american television show. Loads of "commercials" in between a few useful items.

IMHO BAD again has managed to put together an impressive participants list and an interesting display for everyone. Even for the diehards the Vulcan alone is worth the trip.

Also I think the show presents ample opportunities to visit us at the Scramble stand as it is a must do with the new books we have on sale.

btw, I always like a grand finale as you can leave the show without the traffic jams.

Jaap

[Iwan Bogels]

Hi guys,

Rather funny to read that I should stay home and take up another hobby if I don't like someone's favorite show. It sounds like: "Don't touch MY show ! It is how I like it best, and don't you dare to comment on it." Well, I'm going to comment on it structurally anyway, weather you like it or not......

Four large formation jet display teams and two aerobatic toy plane teams...... To put things into perspective: That's like organizing a Theatre Show Day in Carré and putting up six large scale musicals, leaving only small gaps for a comedian, music, dance etc. It is not in balance ! It's like trying to fit six would-be highligts in an apparently dull day.

Yes, every airshow needs a large formation jet display team. And maybe it can use even two. But four.....?!? And yes, an aerobatic toy plane team can be a funny item in an airforce show, but two...?!? Just a few questions: Where are the helicopter display teams ? Where are the transport aircraft demos ? Where are the SAR-demo's ?

No, apparently we need TWO similar F-16 displays instead of trading one for a Mirage 2000, Tornado, Rafale, Harrier or MiG-29 show. And yes, they did very well when they managed to attract the RAF Chinook display, but what happened to the Apache show ? And shouldn't we show a Lynx, AB412 and Sea King doing simulated SAR together ? And trainers ? The curent list on the Luchtmachtdagen website doesn't even have the PC-7 show off anymore.

Just for the sole purpose of showing the crowd what airforces do these days, I would suggest they try to trade some of the six big display teams for some of the items below (no this is NOT a wish list, as my wish list would be considerably different from the list below).

Swedish C-130 show
USAF A-10 demo
German CH-53 demo
PC-7 demo
Any Saab Gripen / Rafale show
Combat SAR demo
G222 / C-27 Spartan show
KDC-10 solo demo
Mirage 2000 / Tornado demo

And why not any fooreign participation in the Air Power Demonstration ?! After all they do combined air operations in real life all the time.......

Think about it !
Iwan

PS: Funny, some want a big team at the end so you can leave without traffic jams when that team is doing their display.

[Hurricane]

No, apparently we need TWO similar F-16 displays instead of trading one for a Mirage 2000, Tornado, Rafale, Harrier or MiG-29 show. And yes, they did very well when they managed to attract the RAF Chinook display, but what happened to the Apache show ? And shouldn't we show a Lynx, AB412 and Sea King doing simulated SAR together ? And trainers ? The curent list on the Luchtmachtdagen website doesn't even have the PC-7 show off anymore.

And why not any fooreign participation in the Air Power Demonstration ?! After all they do combined air operations in real life all the time.......

@ First: This is more depending on availability and what Airforces are willing to send; trading happens in playgrounds, not with displays .
And as you know alle demonstration are depending availability and operational conditions and many solo displays are vanished due to budget cuts... The Mig29 is present as demo so that is an very nice achievement!!

Foreign participation in the AP-Demo is also depending permission from the Airforces that want to involve (if they don't give these it's over)

And having multiple airshows around Europe at the same time also doesn't help much with the diversety but that is how it is, for now they have done a nice job for Volkel..

Adios,

Hurricane

[blu109]

Hi iwan

You are talking about a commercial show.

But what i can remember is that you were at any airshow around europe with a big kodak flag and a trunk full of kodachrome. So what is commercial in your opinion.

[Pieter]

Also I think the show presents ample opportunities to visit us at the Scramble stand as it is a must do with the new books we have on sale.

Jaap

Jaap, hope these books are also on sale on the spottersdag on 18 june

[Jaap]

Also I think the show presents ample opportunities to visit us at the Scramble stand as it is a must do with the new books we have on sale.

Jaap, hope these books are also on sale on the spottersdag on 18 june

We do not have that in our planning I believe. Not being a spottergroup we haven't received any invitation, so at best some Scramble volunteers will show up as a member of their local group. I don't expect them to carry this non-commercial load around the whole day!

Jaap