Izmir 4-5 June - 100 years TuAF - Logs

[K2G]

[
The c/n plate in the aft cockpit says this is an AH-1S with c/n 24019. I think the version AH-1S is more correct !

Hans[/quote]

You might be right, but then hey, I didn't paint the Cobra

Furthermore: Mach III US Air Forces Directory 2010/11 says 76-22585 is an AH-1S with c/n 22019; Scramble database says it (76-22585) is an AH-1P with c/n 22019 And apparently 24019 is not a c/n used by any ex-US Cobra... but 22019 is! So, what can we all agree on ? Or shall we just stick to 13065 ?[/quote]

Indeed AH-1P is correct !! Interesting stuff, here is some more information.

Many AH-1G's were converted to AH-1S. But the AH-1S was also put into production. They started with a new c/n range here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... /ah-1s.htm

100 "Production AH-1S", later redesignated to AH-1P

76-22567 / 610 c/n 24001 / 24044
76-22692 / 713 c/n 24045 / 24066
77-22729 / 762 c/n 24067 / 24100

98 "Ungunned AH-1S", later redesignated to AH-1E

77-22763 / 77-22810
78-23043 / 78-23092

530 "AH-1S Modernized Cobra", later redesignated to AH-1F
530 aircraft, and were completed between November 1979 and June 1981. Of 530 Modernized Cobras, 387 were converted for old AH-1G Cobras and 143 were new Production aircraft.

149 (!) are known to be build
78-23093 / 78-23125
79-23187 / 79-23252
80-23510 / 80-23521
81-23526 / 81-23540
82-24065 / 82-24076
83-24189 / 83-24199

[K2G]

Strange story about the T-38M, as the first updated T-38 must be 38173, wich was also at the static , but delivered in a grey/black colorscheme.

But I think the antenna on the fuselage of the 38321, is one of the updates. So it than is a T-38M, and the 38173 does not have that antenna.



Kier

The only upgraded T-38M was the 38321 at the static as indicated by the two new antenna's (top fuselage and behind nosegear) and the new ejection seats. At Cigli it was also very easy to know because the sign in front of this airplane was from TAI who upgrades these aircraft. The red/white 38173 is in my opinion just a one-off special scheme.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/t ... 1/T-38+ARI

See also:

http://www.tai.com.tr/ds_Resource/image ... r-arka.pdf
http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/t ... n+November
http://www.engsis.com/t38.htm

[frank kramer]

Wow. What one simple Cobra can accomplish... so, we can therefore conclude:

13065/76-22585 AH-1P c/n24019 2Filo Türk Kara Kuvvetleri

Let all databases be amended! Thanks for digging this up.

[nellis6]

The AH-1P should indeed be an AH-1S, however correct C/n should be 22019 not 24019???

Mike

[frank kramer]

No, not really, as was explained above....

The Cobra was built as an AH-1S with c/n 24019 (as demonstrated by the c/n plate in the rear cockpit that was checked by Hans vd Vlist); in 1986, the designation AH-1S was changed to AH-1P for all AH-1S (see link provided by Hans: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... /ah-1s.htm). This is demonstrated by the fact that it is presently registered as an AH-1P on the datablock (my picture). Apparently, they did not change the c/n plate as this still shows its original designation.

So, the line I posted above is correct for it's present designation:

13065/76-22585 AH-1P c/n 24019 2Filo Türk Kara Kuvvetleri

[patrick dirksen]

The only upgraded T-38M was the 38321 at the static as indicated by the two new antenna's (top fuselage and behind nosegear), installation of a HUD and the new ejection seats. At Cigli it was also very easy to know because the sign in front of this airplane was from TAI who upgrades these aircraft. The red/white 38173 is in my opinion just a one-off special scheme and before that used as demonstrator for the upgrade program.

Could I ask you where this info comes from? I spoke with the crew of 38173, and they told me it was an upgraded aircraft and that all aircraft that are getting the upgrade will recieve the new rd/wh c/s like this one had!

[P.Terlouw]

The only upgraded T-38M was the 38321 at the static as indicated by the two new antenna's (top fuselage and behind nosegear), installation of a HUD and the new ejection seats. At Cigli it was also very easy to know because the sign in front of this airplane was from TAI who upgrades these aircraft. The red/white 38173 is in my opinion just a one-off special scheme and before that used as demonstrator for the upgrade program.

Could I ask you where this info comes from? I spoke with the crew of 38173, and they told me it was an upgraded aircraft and that all aircraft that are getting the upgrade will recieve the new rd/wh c/s like this one had!

This info comes from a senior instructor pilot I spoke to, who said they didn't like the dark grey TAI upgrade demonstrator and will remain flying all T-38's in their white scheme. Again, the 38173 is not a fully upgraded T-38 as it lacks the avionics pack, new HUD and new ejection seats and I doubt it had the glass cockpit. The other (38321) had clearly shielded its new cockpit against the elements and other updates clearly visible. Also see the the other all-white upgraded T-38M 38231 in the phototopic.

[EvD]

The Cobra sub variants are not very well known to most and cause lots of mistakes. I delved into the type some years ago. Mainly based on the book US Army Aircraft since 1947 (Stephen Harding, Airlife, 1990) and an old BAR-overview.

There were no less than four main AH-1S variants:

AH-1S(modified)
290, all existing 93 AH-1Q were converted to this standard as were 197 AH-1G;
Recognition:
flat canopy, short turret, TOW sight in nose, normal (flat) exhaust

AH-1S(Production)
297 new built, most were converted to F-standard, the remaining became AH-1P;
Recognition:
flat canopy, 3-barrel 20mm gun, IR supressor on exhaust

AH-1S(ECAS)
98, Enhanced Cobra Armament System, all became AH-1E
Recognition:
flat canopy, 3-barrel 20mm gun, IR supressor on exhaust

AH-1S(Fully Modernized)
377 AH-1S were converted to Fully Modernized standard, and were subsequentally designated AH-1F, 149 new airframes were also built for the US Army along with an unknown number of a/c for FMS / export.
Recognition:
flat canopy, 3-barrel 20mm gun, air data probe, 'thick' IR supressor on exhaust, AN/APQ-144 IR jammer ('discolight'), pilot HUD, bulge on leading edge engine housing

To add pain to misery, export Cobras were upgraded with some or all of the AH-1E/F features (notably the IR supressor and AN/APQ-144).

The one on the static was such a hybrid. Mostly resembling an AH-1E in appearance.

So to summarize, this one started life as an AH-1S(production) - hence the designation on the plate - was redesignated AH-1P and delivered as such, and was exstensively modified (probably afterwards?) with:
* the ECAS suite (like the AH-1E)
* the AN/APR-144 and air data probe (like the AH-1F)
* RWR suite of unknown origin

So please check your own databases for 'suspect' AH-1S, as most will be E or F. Remember that the early S(modified) were short turreted.

Hopefully, the Cobra will get some well-deserved recognition, in every sense of the word, next time you see one !

Erwin

[r.e.hendriks]

According MSF these should be the serials of the Thunderbirds.

They are not the same as posted before, so what is correct?

> 91-0392
> 92-3880
> 92-3881
> 92-3888
> 92-3890
> 92-3896
> 92-3898
> 92-3908

Best regards Rob.

[ehusmann]

The previous ones CANNOT be the correct ones, as those had 6 C and 2 D serials, while all 8 at Izmir were C models.
In this case I would like to know the source, how did they get the serials? And is there a tie-up with the codes?

Erwin

[wamovements]

The previous ones CANNOT be the correct ones, as those had 6 C and 2 D serials, while all 8 at Izmir were C models.
In this case I would like to know the source, how did they get the serials? And is there a tie-up with the codes?

Erwin

> 91-0392
> 92-3880
> 92-3881
> 92-3888
> 92-3890
> 92-3896
> 92-3898
> 92-3908

Erwin, which of the above 8 are according to you a D model???
I assume there is something wrong in your personal database!!!!

[ehusmann]

wamovements, I was not talking about these 8 serials, I was talking about the previous serials given. As Rob mentioned, somebody posted serials some pages before, but those contained D serials. Hence Rob asking for which are the right ones and hence me saying "the previous" cannot be the correct ones and "in this case" I would like to understand where these come from.
So there is nothing wrong in my database.....

Erwin

[Le Addeur noir]

Based airplanes seen returning here on Wednesday,8th June,

T-37B 122 Filo

59-0251 2-251
59-0262 2-262
59-0306 2-306
59-0314 2-314
59-0328 2-328
59-0388 2-388
59-0389 2-389
64-13430 2-430
68-7997 2-997
68-8016 2-016
68-8074 2-074
68-8078 2-078

T-37C 122 Filo

62-12487 2-487
63-9832 2-832
63-9838 2-838
63-9839 2-839
63-9848 2-848
63-9851 2-851
64-17996 2-996
64-17997 2-997
65-12806 2-806
65-12809 2-809
65-12813 2-813

Each T-37 was also coded TE- last three of serial.

T-38A 121 Filo

62-3644 2-644
62-3693 2-693
62-3696 2-696
62-3708 2-708
62-3711 2-711
62-3721 2-721
62-3734 2-734
62-3740 2-740
62-3748 2-748
62-3749 2-749
62-3751 2-751
63-8121 2-121
63-8145 2-145
63-8159 2-159
63-8176 2-176
63-8180 2-180
63-8195 2-195
63-8201 2-201
63-8208 2-208
63-8220 2-220
63-8226 2-226
63-8237 2-237
63-8238 2-238
63-8240 2-240
64-13300 2-300

KT-1T 122 Filo

10-02
10-03
10.04

[Stefan]

Hi Erwin,

In this case I would like to know the source, how did they get the serials? And is there a tie-up with the codes?

Quoting from MSF:

Hi Mike

I have been away and have only just read this. I did reply to your request
so it must have got lost in the 'post'. There is no secret to how they were
obtained. The serials were passed from the F-16s to the tanker when they
were refuelled last week.

Dougie Couch

Regards,
Stefan

[SquAdmin]

Sounds good enough for me!

Codes could in theory be changed every performance, so they're of little value.