EHRD 22-03-2010 - no An-12

[MartijnMD11]

I really wonder what kind of equipment U r missing in Rotterdam to handle an AN12???????
There is no eqpmnt needed besides a vorklift...or in the worst case a lowerdeck loader backwards to the a/c.
James

that is really the reason, there was no equipment availeble at that moment, that's why it divirted to AMS.

So after all this blablabla nonsens (no offense to everyone; only towards Backtrack who wouldn't believe me) it comes out that my reason that it would go to AMS was due to incapable equipment (material shortage) from the handler.

Ciao, MartijnMD11

[Backtrack]

I can understand if AP doesn't invest in materials to load/unload wide-body cargo jets. But i just can't imagine what kind of equipment they lack to load/unload a An12? And if they lack it. You can always hire (for example) a heavy forklift. Come on you're in the Rotterdam area, there are lots of (shipping business-related) companies who offer materials which can be hired on short notice for short-tem rentals.

Sorry, but I don't agree with you at all!
Maybe the equipment AP has is not suitable for a certain size of cargo? I don't know the size of the cargo the An-12 was supposed fly to Constanta yesterday, but it seems like a good reason.
Why should AP hire equipment AND staff (because they're most likely not qualified to operate the hired equipment), just to load one Antonov 12? It's way to expensive to operate this way.
At for example AMS they have this equipment, because they handle a lot more cargo flights.

You, as an ex Servisair Rotterdam employee, should know better!

Regards,

Pim

It doesn't matter anymore. but i still feel very very disapointed about AP not being able to load a single An12. It remains rediculous. I just can't inmagine what kind of special equipment they should not have available to load a An12. And even if they miss it you can always hire something for a short term rent. In my opinion it's something you should do as a handler/airport. It's called "service" and i feel much more could have been realised. It's not to difficult to rent a heavy duty forklift or a small mobile crane.
But if AP is not able to offer this service than it is a pitty. Loading a An12 is not that difficult. I've done it a few times as well.
Furtermore there must have been a reason for the shipper/broker to send the cargo via Rotterdam airport. The extra costs involved to get the cargo to Schiphol are probably on their account. I think they are also not happy about this.

Gr
Thijs

[Michel]

And even if they miss it you can always hire something for a short term rent. In my opinion it's something you should do as a handler/airport. It's called "service" and i feel much more could have been realised. It's not to difficult to rent a heavy duty forklift or a small mobile crane.

This means AP has to make extra costs, which the airline or broker should pay for. Maybe the airline/broker just didn't want to pay for all this?

[Backtrack]

^^
That might be a option. But there is still a gap of information. So it's difficult to tell. I still don't know what kind of equipment AP missed.

[SPL]

Misschien niet helemaal het juiste voorbeeld, maar komt wel in de richting. Het is nu twee of drie keer gebeurt dat er een Airbus 340-600 op Schiphol is geland (door een bepaalde situatie). Het bleek na de eerste keer dat er geen enkele afhandelaar op Schiphol een Towbar voor de 340-600 had. De reactie van de afhandelaren was: waarom zouden wij iets aanschaven wat toch nooit (in de normale bedrijfsvoering) gebruikt wordt?

Nu is de het verhaal van de AN-12 op Rotterdam nog niet helemaal duidelijk, laat dat eerst maar eens naar boven komen. Als er dan een bepaalde maatschappij en/of aircraft type wordt ingehuurd, zorg van te voren dan dat alles is geregeld. Sommige maatschappijen nemen ook eigen materiaal mee.


Groeten Martijn

[Key]

Furtermore there must have been a reason for the shipper/broker to send the cargo via Rotterdam airport. The extra costs involved to get the cargo to Schiphol are probably on their account. I think they are also not happy about this.

And I would assume the shipper/broker is just as much involved in the decision to reroute via AMS as he was in the original planning, including gathering of information to plan this flight. In other words: just a business decision, either way? Quite interesing, how much excitement this event causes here...


Erik

[Backtrack]

either way? Quite interesing, how much excitement this event causes here...

Erik

That is because it's so strange. Hundreds of An12's and simular A/C have been loaded/unloaded in the past. And suddenly it's not possible anymore due to AP not being capable to handle it? i still wonder why.
However the An12 is not a daily visitor @ RTM, i feel the Airport(handler) should be able to handle it anytime as it is not anyway near a "special type".
I can inmagine if (for example) a An124 is re-directed to Amsterdam. But for a An12? No with the insights i've got it's not excuseable.
Rotterdam airport already has a bad name with the cargo brokers. This incident is likely to minimize the chance of any simular flights in the future which in al means is a loss for the airport and lack of diversity we already have in RTM.

[Aviaphotos]

Maybe the equipment wasn't working as required, also an option? (I'm not working for AP, so I don't know the real reason).
I don't understand why you're so negative about RTM and think you know it all, while you're not even working at the airport
These things happen. A lot of nice flights have been cancelled in the past, for various reasons, not all related to RTM or AP. Often
RTM gets the blaim by spotters, but they don't always have the correct info.

[Hurricane]

either way? Quite interesing, how much excitement this event causes here...

That is because it's so strange. Hundreds of An12's and simular A/C have been loaded/unloaded in the past. And suddenly it's not possible anymore due to AP not being capable to handle it? i still wonder why.

Just a quick guess; If the cargo needed to be loaded with a forklift (and a capable one isn't around) manual loading is not an option and then it looks normal to me that the plane moves to a field where this can be done ...

From last time I've seen AP at RTM they have some APU's, pax stairs, water service car (and this isn't working in (un)loading anything )

Records from the past don't count these days.

[Backtrack]

Maybe the equipment wasn't working as required, also an option? (I'm not working for AP, so I don't know the real reason).
I don't understand why you're so negative about RTM and think you know it all, while you're not even working at the airport
These things happen. A lot of nice flights have been cancelled in the past, for various reasons, not all related to RTM or AP. Often
RTM gets the blaim by spotters, but they don't always have the correct info.

I just explain my concerns about this matter. Because the effect of this matter could reach further then you would innitialy expect. An airport/handler who is not able to handle this type of A/C is lauchable and these kind of "fires" spread fast in the world of the brokers/charterers etc. And it might affect future flights into Rotterdam for both cargo and even passenger charters alike.
You're right about the fact that flights have been cancelled more often in the past. But it's a first time that Rotterdam Airport has to reject a flight for a very "normal" type of aircraft due to lack of materials to handle it.

In the scenario as mentioned above about a forklift not being present or in working condition than AP should rent one. I know by experience that same could be arranged witin a few hours notice. But that are only just my 2 cents.....

Gr
Thijs

[Stratofreighter]

In Dutch:

Ik kan mij nog de gevleugelde woorden van de directeur van Rotterdam Airport herinerren....' vracht' zei hij 'komt er niet meer in op RTM'...
Dat was omstreeks 2005/6 en zie hier het bewijs en resultaat...

This indeed says a lot...

The strategy of Rotterdam Airport is to be a business airport (with some charter traffic).

That strategy is VERY much politically motivated to keep some local NIMBYs at bay. There certainly IS a market at Rotterdam for freight as the not too distant past has shown...
But there has to be the (political) will to accommodate these flights.

[ivo de groot]

antonov at rtm,YU-UIA was a nice one can remember,sad it is ending..

[Stratofreighter]

Quite interesing, how much excitement this event causes here...

If you want to learn about other frustrated/missed opportunities at Rotterdam Zestienhoven in the past, then read through the thread at http://forum.rtm-info.nl/viewtopic.php?p=5906" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

No wonder local "aviation people" get "worked up" if incidents like these happen and continue to happen...
Especially read the "pensioned broker" (yes, he is for real !) part...

[SpotterNL]

The strategy of Rotterdam Airport is to be a business airport (with some charter traffic).

That strategy is VERY much politically motivated to keep some local NIMBYs at bay. There certainly IS a market at Rotterdam for freight as the not too distant past has shown...
But there has to be the (political) will to accommodate these flights.

There is also a market for small General Aviation at Amsterdam, perhaps we should have them in again en-masse as well? Or there clearly is a market for business-class only flights across the atlantic as KLM has shown. Perhaps ArkeFly and Transavia should start serving that market as well?

A strategy is something you set out because you want to be good at something, as that gives potential to make a profit. however, being good at something also means you have to invest in it, and the big question is if you can make more money than it costs. Rotterdam has decided it doesn't want to be good at freight, KLM has decided it doesn't want to be good in being a low-cost airline and ArkeFly has decided it doesn't want to be good in business-class traffic.

[flying_kiwi]

Quite interesing, how much excitement this event causes here...

If you want to learn about other frustrated/missed opportunities at Rotterdam Zestienhoven in the past, then read through the thread at http://forum.rtm-info.nl/viewtopic.php?p=5906" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

No wonder local "aviation people" get "worked up" if incidents like these happen and continue to happen...
Especially read the "pensioned broker" (yes, he is for real !) part...

As the saying goes, when one door closes, another opens.

I wouldn't necessarily describe the opportunities as missed, as it's more likely that those opportunites were turned down as part of the greater strategy/long-term plan. Aside from that, I suspect that the opportunities mentioned in the other thread, were merely options for the companies in question, and by no means a guarantee that had the management of the airport at the time decided to persue these opportunities, they still would have happened.

As Key said, I'm surprised how much of a ruckus this relatively minor event has caused, and especially how the airport (and it's management) is being blamed for perfectly reasonable business decisions made by the handling company.

Yorden